Property in Brazil - General buying and selling tips for Brazil

[ParaibaDouglas]

Originally Posted by robh

Christian,

You need a CPF number before you can remit funds to Brazil (legally).
The CPF must be attached to an address which in my case is my lawyer's address in Brazil.
I know plenty of people that have just recently sent money without a Brazilian address.

Regards,
Rob.

Ola, anyone can send money to Brazil without a CPF. In the case of purchasing property you need to show a contract at the Bank for it to go smoothly. Funds being sent must be from the same person/entity noted in the contract. Only when you apply for your deed (escritura) to register the property in your name is a CPF required. The property can be your address. This is as of yesterday as a friend just sent funds down for a purchase here in Jacuma, Paraiba for a beach condo. Note that procedures can be different depending on the state, the town, the people involved at the bank, who you know etc. That is just the way it is with the bureaucracy here and in many other countries as well. Onward, Douglas at brazilbeachliving dot com

[debzor]

Originally Posted by ParaibaDouglas

Ola, anyone can send money to Brazil without a CPF. In the case of purchasing property you need to show a contract at the Bank for it to go smoothly. Funds being sent must be from the same person/entity noted in the contract. Only when you apply for your deed (escritura) to register the property in your name is a CPF required. The property can be your address. This is as of yesterday as a friend just sent funds down for a purchase here in Jacuma, Paraiba for a beach condo. Note that procedures can be different depending on the state, the town, the people involved at the bank, who you know etc. That is just the way it is with the bureaucracy here and in many other countries as well. Onward, Douglas at brazilbeachliving dot com

I think you are both saying the same thing - you do not need a CPF number to actually send funds, but you must quote the CPF/CNPJ number of the account holder in Brazil, to whom the funds are being sent.

[Dotty]

Just slightly ambiguous......We know that the cooked crooks in the banking systems exist,but a CPF really is essential with contract because if you want to pass it on then you need it before you have an escuitura.When did the laws change??Without it can be a real pain especially if yur friend ever needs to open an account ,pay taxes etc.

Originally Posted by ParaibaDouglas

Ola, anyone can send money to Brazil without a CPF. In the case of purchasing property you need to show a contract at the Bank for it to go smoothly. Funds being sent must be from the same person/entity noted in the contract. Only when you apply for your deed (escritura) to register the property in your name is a CPF required. The property can be your address. This is as of yesterday as a friend just sent funds down for a purchase here in Jacuma, Paraiba for a beach condo. Note that procedures can be different depending on the state, the town, the people involved at the bank, who you know etc. That is just the way it is with the bureaucracy here and in many other countries as well. Onward, Douglas at brazilbeachliving dot com

[ParaibaDouglas]

[QUOTE=Dotty;81304]Just slightly ambiguous......We know that the cooked crooks in the

Ola again, Intention was not to say there are crooks involved, just that things can be enforced, interpreted, massaged, forgotten, ignored, or misunderstood in general. That is why you can get 50 different answers to a direct question regarding laws in Brazil. It can be a challenge anywhere, we all know that. Here there are so many overlapping and vague laws it is especially a challenge.

And again, you do not need a CPF to send funds to Brazil, period. The account holder that the funds are going to has a CPF number on file but is not required to do the paperwork, just the account #, Name, Branch , Swift # if wiring funds.

If you want property in your name/company then you need a CPF to have it registered legally at the time of transfer.

Onward, Douglas

[Dotty]

To purchase property you need a CPF as a buyer .When did the law change ,yesterday as quoted?

I can send money into your account from anywhere,but up to 9,999 reais in one payment without a CPF.Did he make various instalments to purchase??I am just curious to know if others have heard about this.
[QUOTE=ParaibaDouglas;81309]

Originally Posted by Dotty

Just slightly ambiguous......We know that the cooked crooks in the

Ola again, Intention was not to say there are crooks involved, just that things can be enforced, interpreted, massaged, forgotten, ignored, or misunderstood in general. That is why you can get 50 different answers to a direct question regarding laws in Brazil. It can be a challenge anywhere, we all know that. Here there are so many overlapping and vague laws it is especially a challenge.

And again, you do not need a CPF to send funds to Brazil, period. The account holder that the funds are going to has a CPF number on file but is not required to do the paperwork, just the account #, Name, Branch , Swift # if wiring funds.

If you want property in your name/company then you need a CPF to have it registered legally at the time of transfer.

Onward, Douglas

[debzor]

[QUOTE=Dotty;81312]To purchase property you need a CPF as a buyer .When did the law change ,yesterday as quoted?

I can send money into your account from anywhere,but up to 9,999 reais in one payment without a CPF.Did he make various instalments to purchase??I am just curious to know if others have heard about this.
To register property in your name you need a CPF, for sure, but you do not need one to send money from abroad, or to buy and register later (as happens a lot with Brazilians) when you have your CPF.

Max to send from the UK without bank account proof is R$9999. Having a CPF is irrelevant to this. Any amount over this can be sent if proven to be from a UK bank account, without CPF.

[robh]

Originally Posted by ParaibaDouglas

Ola, anyone can send money to Brazil without a CPF. In the case of purchasing property you need to show a contract at the Bank for it to go smoothly. Funds being sent must be from the same person/entity noted in the contract. Only when you apply for your deed (escritura) to register the property in your name is a CPF required. The property can be your address. This is as of yesterday as a friend just sent funds down for a purchase here in Jacuma, Paraiba for a beach condo. Note that procedures can be different depending on the state, the town, the people involved at the bank, who you know etc. That is just the way it is with the bureaucracy here and in many other countries as well. Onward, Douglas at brazilbeachliving dot com

Hi Douglas,

Are you saying that if I send money without my CPF I can still register my payment (not my purchase) with the Brazil govt, so when it is time to sell I won't get hit with a massive tax bill?

I understand you can send money without a CPF, but for the sake of a 2 week wait we don't advise it to any of our clients unless it is just for the reservation fee. I have also seen property purchases and payment registrations being done correctly without one cent ever landing on the shores of Brazil, but this requires the help of a good lawyer and isn't something you should do unless you really need to.

Regards,
Rob.

[ParaibaDouglas]

Hi Rob,

Apologies for the delay in responding. Unless I am not remembering correctly the conversation was about sending funds to Brazil for purchasing property. In this case a CPF is not required, but a contract at the receiving bank is with the funds coming from the person or entity noted on the contract. When all the paperwork is done for the transfer of ownership to the new buyer a CPF of the buyer is required.

A friend sent a wire for a 50% deposit on a condo on Wed in the US without a CPF on the contract at the Brazlian Bank. The funds arrived Friday (last). The owner of the account receiving the funds has a tax to pay of something like 6.9%. Beyond that I leave tax questions to others, I need help there like most people.

Friends also sold their beach home here to a foreigner and the money never came to Brazil so yes in my experience that can be done as well. Both parties were out of the country.

The under 10,000 Reais question: to my knowledge under 10K there is no paperwork required. Over 10K they require a declaration of what the funds are for etc.

Onward, Douglas
Http://BrazilBeachLiving.com

Originally Posted by robh

Hi Douglas,

Are you saying that if I send money without my CPF I can still register my payment (not my purchase) with the Brazil govt, so when it is time to sell I won't get hit with a massive tax bill?

I understand you can send money without a CPF, but for the sake of a 2 week wait we don't advise it to any of our clients unless it is just for the reservation fee. I have also seen property purchases and payment registrations being done correctly without one cent ever landing on the shores of Brazil, but this requires the help of a good lawyer and isn't something you should do unless you really need to.

Regards,
Rob.

[robh]

Hi Douglas,

I know it is legal to send without a CPF (in theory it should be) and a lot depends on which bank, the govt., who is on duty, lawyers etc., but personally I like to take the safest path and make sure the big payments all come through with all CPF's in place. If you use someone like Moneycorp (who will save you money as well BTW) to send money for a property purchase they will insist on you having a CPF as well.

Regards,
Rob.

Originally Posted by ParaibaDouglas

Hi Rob,

Apologies for the delay in responding. Unless I am not remembering correctly the conversation was about sending funds to Brazil for purchasing property. In this case a CPF is not required, but a contract at the receiving bank is with the funds coming from the person or entity noted on the contract. When all the paperwork is done for the transfer of ownership to the new buyer a CPF of the buyer is required.

A friend sent a wire for a 50% deposit on a condo on Wed in the US without a CPF on the contract at the Brazlian Bank. The funds arrived Friday (last). The owner of the account receiving the funds has a tax to pay of something like 6.9%. Beyond that I leave tax questions to others, I need help there like most people.

Friends also sold their beach home here to a foreigner and the money never came to Brazil so yes in my experience that can be done as well. Both parties were out of the country.

The under 10,000 Reais question: to my knowledge under 10K there is no paperwork required. Over 10K they require a declaration of what the funds are for etc.

Onward, Douglas
Http://BrazilBeachLiving.com

[ParaibaDouglas]

Thanks Rob,

Appreciate the insights and link. Where are you located by the way? Drop me an emal, I'd appreciate keeping in touch. Best, Douglas@brazilbeachliving.com[

QUOTE=robh;81798]Hi Douglas,

I know it is legal to send without a CPF (in theory it should be) and a lot depends on which bank, the govt., who is on duty, lawyers etc., but personally I like to take the safest path and make sure the big payments all come through with all CPF's in place. If you use someone like Moneycorp (who will save you money as well BTW) to send money for a property purchase they will insist on you having a CPF as well.

Regards,
Rob.[/QUOTE]