Resales Vs Offplan

[PAUL-brasil]

Originally Posted by beenthere

Paul,

The villas you were talking about were 70k to 120k 2 years ago, those prices will not be the same now.

BT

Very true, that s why i made sure i stated that they were from 2years ago, i dont know what those prices will be now as i dont have a great interest in villa in PN no more because they are too out of my league because i refuse to borrow money.

[mitico67]

for everyone leaving in London there is an opportunity to get some more info on investing in Brazil. Alexander Richards is organizing a free seminar on Thursday 11/10/07 at 7:30 pm in Ruislip. I'll let you know if anything interesting will be said.

[PAUL-brasil]

Originally Posted by robh

I think you guys are showing that doing things your way is not easy and requires you to be on the ground otherwise things would get out of control pretty quickly. Whether your returns would be better after you take into account all the effort required is the real question then.

Ok where s the large amount of defence for off plan gone, we have only had 2 people try defend this method 1 of them was a offplan agent! Come on Deedee your topdog on here give us some words of thought on this issue as it is obviously an important topic which has not been thought of and looked into by many which really surprises me because how can you accept the value of an offplan without comparing it against the true market valve? I think the fact is that people do not care to look because they are sold too easily by agent biggin up the picture. Now the only points being made so far against buying resales are about security and quality which i have proved to be untrue in this tread and in some others. I ll look at some of the main advantages(A) and disadvantages(D) for both where they differ to see on the feedback and what can be added to them.
OFFPLANS,
(D) You buy them 25% more than its like for like resale type (25% is just a typical example) This actually means your paying 50% MORE than you should be because an offplan should be atleast 25% cheaper than a already built resale because of the obvious disadvantages and risks, we dont buy more for offplan or new against the same type in resale in UK or US we buy them cheaper so why should we in Brazil especially with cheap labour n materials.
(D) You cant see what you are buying obviously because its not built, you cant see the quality or can see the size, you only going buy a digital biased impression so this holds a risk factor.
(D) You have to wait years to use it or make any income (income of these are another story!)
(D) because of the high over price you are then waiting years for the market to catch up before there is a capital gain because as soon as its finally built and you try sell it is of cause just another resale,
(D) If Paying stage payments you are risking against future exchange losses against the R$ before you have fully paid so another risk.
(D) The constant worries many people are experiencing with these like eg will it be as good as the agent says it will be, whats being built next to it or in front, why is it being delayed etc.
(A) You have flexible payments if you want them
(A) Communal security
(A) It appears to be fashionable on a forum

RESALES
(D) You need to buy fully paid
(D) Property management is not on site (against the Offplans which do have on site) so you need to find it which is not that hard. Property management is onsite tho with resales when in many certain Appartments in prime spots.
(D) Security is the same of cause when in a communal but if against Villa s which are not communal then you have housekeeper instead so is this method as secure!
(D) More work to be done to find the correct areas if you want a decent capital (But this work should still be done with offplan)
(A) less worries because you can see and know what you have bought and what is in the area (if you do it correctly that is)
(A) You get much more for your money and if you buy lots cheaper to buy a property which needs modernising then you can design your own personal favour with the countrys cheap labour and materials.
(A) The opersite to all off the above with Offplan disadvantages


Any add on s or thoughts??????????????????????

Regards
Paul

[Golfingworld]

Paul, you know my thoughts! I have a feeling, which will no doubt arouse a great deal of comment and one you missed or ignored. People who buy offplan are no really business people. There are people who want or expect the work done for them. For that they hope and expect that things will work out ok and they try to beleive the hype which has bee attached to this concept. I think this is bourne out by the number of people on here that have not acutally been there to look. They might have been to a Cocktail Party in Madrid or Marbella but not actually taken the risk of going to Brazil To me this says it all. I would never ever invest a cent with anyone that I hadn't seen the colour of their eyes first. I would have looked north, south, east and west from the alleged site and said...what about this and that.

Unfortunately, the offplan concept is sold to those who won't go the extra mile, that is why many are vulnerable. It is also true that my comments about this have received a reaction which has resulted in personal affront..I see that as some sort of self defence mechanism. Why, because they know deep down that they are punting inthe dark an just hope it all goes well. Plus, they are not prepared to do what you have done and that is to go through thepain of doing it yourself. No gain without pain, and less gain without pain..that's my point. Frankly, there has been some complete nonsense spoken by developers and agents about NE offplan Brazil It isn't happening like they say, not on time and the positives they claim are stretching the truth. I amnot attacking the buyers but the sellers and much as they don't realise trying to help them to do proper deals. They should be pressuring these developers, every which way but how into prices, terms, completion, admin and bank accounts and legal. Most seem terrified to do that.
It is in their best interest to be a body that gets thebest deal..and the best deal is not to accept what they are told, pay regardless and hope it will all work out in the end!

[robh]

I will only say two things:

1. I have yet to see a 25% difference in price when comparing like to like, i.e. a resale in a 4 y.o. resort compared to a similar size offplan in a resort. Offplan was cheaper as it should be.
I think real comparisons are the biggest problem with this debate, as they are difficult to get.

2. Security & quality are difficult to manage on a standalone unless you are there. Yes you can hire someone to look after both for you, but where are you going to find them? You wouldn't hire someone you met in the pub in the UK a few days before to look after your house for 6 months would you?

Also regarding quality on offplans you will actually see the quality of materials and fittings specified in documents before they build, they are part of the plan submitted to get the license and they must be adhered to by law.

Originally Posted by PAUL-brasil

Ok where s the large amount of defence for off plan gone, we have only had 2 people try defend this method 1 of them was a offplan agent! Come on Deedee your topdog on here give us some words of thought on this issue as it is obviously an important topic which has not been thought of and looked into by many which really surprises me because how can you accept the value of an offplan without comparing it against the true market valve? I think the fact is that people do not care to look because they are sold too easily by agent biggin up the picture. Now the only points being made so far against buying resales are about security and quality which i have proved to be untrue in this tread and in some others. I ll look at some of the main advantages(A) and disadvantages(D) for both where they differ to see on the feedback and what can be added to them.
OFFPLANS,
(D) You buy them 25% more than its like for like resale type (25% is just a typical example) This actually means your paying 50% MORE than you should be because an offplan should be atleast 25% cheaper than a already built resale because of the obvious disadvantages and risks, we dont buy more for offplan or new against the same type in resale in UK or US we buy them cheaper so why should we in Brazil especially with cheap labour n materials.
(D) You cant see what you are buying obviously because its not built, you cant see the quality or can see the size, you only going buy a digital biased impression so this holds a risk factor.
(D) You have to wait years to use it or make any income (income of these are another story!)
(D) because of the high over price you are then waiting years for the market to catch up before there is a capital gain because as soon as its finally built and you try sell it is of cause just another resale,
(D) If Paying stage payments you are risking against future exchange losses against the R$ before you have fully paid so another risk.
(D) The constant worries many people are experiencing with these like eg will it be as good as the agent says it will be, whats being built next to it or in front, why is it being delayed etc.
(A) You have flexible payments if you want them
(A) Communal security
(A) It appears to be fashionable on a forum

RESALES
(D) You need to buy fully paid
(D) Property management is not on site (against the Offplans which do have on site) so you need to find it which is not that hard. Property management is onsite tho with resales when in many certain Appartments in prime spots.
(D) Security is the same of cause when in a communal but if against Villa s which are not communal then you have housekeeper instead so is this method as secure!
(D) More work to be done to find the correct areas if you want a decent capital (But this work should still be done with offplan)
(A) less worries because you can see and know what you have bought and what is in the area (if you do it correctly that is)
(A) You get much more for your money and if you buy lots cheaper to buy a property which needs modernising then you can design your own personal favour with the countrys cheap labour and materials.
(A) The opersite to all off the above with Offplan disadvantages


Any add on s or thoughts??????????????????????

Regards
Paul

[JMBroad]

Originally Posted by Golfingworld

Depends on your definition of sea view. The fact is that there are good house deals in PN and the whole dbate is about resales v offplan. There seems to be a glaring absence of offplan supporters here at present..perhaps they are all off writing to the airlines asking them how we are all supposed to get to Brazil?

Haha no, just sitting back being entertained. The whole "beating a dead horse" thing, if you know what I mean. I've come to the conclusion that you can't be "converted" because you don't want to be, which is fine and best of luck with your adventures over in Brazil.

Any facts you are offered, you reject without disproving and never offer any facts yourself except your own conclusions which result in comparisons to Spain, South Africa and Miami.

[nigelallen]

A silly question really, but has anyone on here made a profit on an off plan property in Brazil yet, i mean a real profit you know, sold on before final payment, or sold after final payment, and walked away with the widely advertised 20% CG per annum, just wondering.

[robh]

Originally Posted by JMBroad

Any facts you are offered, you reject without disproving and never offer any facts yourself except your own conclusions which result in comparisons to Spain, South Africa and Miami.

Yes, I am afraid this forum has been taken over by people who have nothing better to do but to slag off everyone who sells or develops offplan and now they are even slagging off people who have bought offplan.

Maybe it is time to split the Brazil forum into Brazil resales and Brazil offplan.

[robh]

Originally Posted by nigelallen

A silly question really, but has anyone on here made a profit on an off plan property in Brazil yet, i mean a real profit you know, sold on before final payment, or sold after final payment, and walked away with the widely advertised 20% CG per annum, just wondering.

as an investor yes lots.

[Golfingworld]

Robh, you had a clear run for a long time...can't you stand the heat? Whatever business we are in is competitive with counter arguments, the professional man overcomes these negatives and continues to sell as he is (allegedly) better qualified in his field. So don't cut and run but do the utmost professional job and overcome the objections.

As for me not putting facts forward, I destroyed these ild statements about airline links to Brazil, to the point that one website has amended their flight information...I think it is the one that claimed BMI Baby with their 737's are flying to Brazil, hopefully via The Canaries to re-fuel! With regard to getting a bank account it is a proven fact that this can be very difficult. With regard to the commecement of work, you are the only one that has made an attempt to show "work in progress". As for whethersome of these sites in Natal area have infrastructure, why not publish pics of the local supermarkets or land where they will be built? All this helps to clarify issues. Im not at all against property development and am pleased to now announce that I too have bought an "off plan" apartment. But, the developer I bught from didn't claim I would make a quick buck, he didn't say that prices are rising rapidly, he didn't tell me I can get there cheaply or easily and he didn't offer me a hypothetical rent guarantee that I cant bank. Oh and one final thing, he is 80% finished and I have stood on the roof and looked down at a cement mixer working! And yes, I have lots of fotos.