A Couple "Musts" and "MustNots" When Investing In Brazil

[RalphJ]

Originally Posted by wolfgang

Your point is indeed valid and it never ceases to amaze me how people are prepared to spuculate large sums of hard earned money without conducting proper research.
I am also aware of the scam to which you refer involving Property Bond,no Creci,Keifer,*** et al etc -it has been well documented.

is it well documented on this site WG?? If so, could you point me in the direction of the threads?

Ya know there are still a few guys lingering around here in Aracaju that were in "cahoots" with Keifer when he was here several years ago. According to them, Keifer screwed them too, lol. But, coincidentally, one of them was/is involved in this Viva Vida deal here in Aracaju.

[RalphJ]

Originally Posted by wolfgang

Your point is indeed valid and it never ceases to amaze me how people are prepared to spuculate large sums of hard earned money without conducting proper research.
I am also aware of the scam to which you refer involving Property Bond,no Creci,Keifer,*** et al etc -it has been well documented.

Funny you mentioned Property Bond. They're the agent that this Howard Davis who sold Viva Vida passed the remaining money onto once the police caught up with him. And they (P.B.) were not wanting to give the money to anyone until a handful of the english that I took to my lawyer entered a lawsuit here in Brazil against the builder.

Truly unreal. The investors, the builder, everyone was like,"who does this agent think he is holding onto people's money when it needs to be paid to the builder...or better yet, refunded to the investors!"

[Golfingworld]

What I find interesting is why these alleged people have moved on to Brazil to scam on property. There are only two main reasons, firstly there is no market for them in Europe and secondly people naively think that they can make money without going the extra mile that 99% of the working population have to go through. The overall concept here is that the "off plan" bubble is bursting where it was strong in Europe and developers/agents (genuine ones) have got to move further afield to continue their concept. In the current market in Brazil "off plan" is on a very sticky wicket due to the rise in The $Real and the unlikely capital appreciation. Any individual should simply not forward speculate unless they can afford to lose money as it is no better than gambling really. What they should do is find complete or almost complete places and offer at least 25% less than the asking price, have the money ready and complete the deal and not think that there is a promised land out there for those who don't want to go through the hoop to make money. If there was, nobody would need to work would they!

[JMBroad]

Originally Posted by Golfingworld

What I find interesting is why these alleged people have moved on to Brazil to scam on property. There are only two main reasons, firstly there is no market for them in Europe and secondly people naively think that they can make money without going the extra mile that 99% of the working population have to go through. The overall concept here is that the "off plan" bubble is bursting where it was strong in Europe and developers/agents (genuine ones) have got to move further afield to continue their concept. In the current market in Brazil "off plan" is on a very sticky wicket due to the rise in The $Real and the unlikely capital appreciation. Any individual should simply not forward speculate unless they can afford to lose money as it is no better than gambling really. What they should do is find complete or almost complete places and offer at least 25% less than the asking price, have the money ready and complete the deal and not think that there is a promised land out there for those who don't want to go through the hoop to make money. If there was, nobody would need to work would they!

If you don't work, how do you afford the house?

The idea is, people who do work are willing to pay a fee to other people to research the market for them to help them know where to invest. The golden egg is finding the right company to help you, not necessarily doing it yourself. By finding the right person/company who goes out to the locations, who does research (possibly speaks the language and can talk to the locals). Researching the potential investment locations to find the best conditions and best prospects of capital growth IS a full time job. I'm not sure how someone who does work could do it for themself and not screw up by hurrying the process or forgetting some vital detail like building license, land ownership or transferring money via the central bank, etc

[beenthere]

What a laugh, we now have a american Golfxxxx clone who comes in with all guns blazing, accusing everyone of either being crooks or being stupid. Topping it off by talking about the same thing that people have been talking about on here for ages like it is a great discovery he has just made.

Talk about stereotypes ...

[RalphJ]

Originally Posted by beenthere

What a laugh, we now have a american Golfxxxx clone who comes in with all guns blazing, accusing everyone of either being crooks or being stupid. Topping it off by talking about the same thing that people have been talking about on here for ages like it is a great discovery he has just made.

Talk about stereotypes ...

What a laugh your response is beenthere. I can tell you this, 99% of the 33 current homeowners at Viva Vida in Aracaju would sure have loved to have met me 3 years ago. Matter of fact some will probably be posting on this board soon. The only people I've accused of being crooks are the crooks that I have actually came in contact with. Unfortunately, I have yet to meet ONE english investor in Brazil that has not had a negative situation and been informed 100% correctly....in some cases being completely robbed.

Believe me, its not in my best interest to tell people these stories. I'm a developer, I have an interest in selling Brazil. But I don't need to lie to people nor mislead them. Some of you react like, "well, thanks for telling us something we already knew". But in my experience here on the GROUND in Brazil I have yet to meet English investors that did know what they were doing BEFORE they made their investment! And it's not all their fault! Unfortunately they trusted people that either didn't do their homework, or were deliberately misleading them.

[beenthere]

Originally Posted by RalphJ

What a laugh your response is beenthere. I can tell you this, 99% of the 33 current homeowners at Viva Vida in Aracaju would sure have loved to have met me 3 years ago. Matter of fact some will probably be posting on this board soon. The only people I've accused of being crooks are the crooks that I have actually came in contact with. Unfortunately, I have yet to meet ONE english investor in Brazil that has not had a negative situation and been informed 100% correctly....in some cases being completely robbed.

Believe me, its not in my best interest to tell people these stories. I'm a developer, I have an interest in selling Brazil. But I don't need to lie to people nor mislead them. Some of you react like, "well, thanks for telling us something we already knew". But in my experience here on the GROUND in Brazil I have yet to meet English investors that did know what they were doing BEFORE they made their investment! And it's not all their fault! Unfortunately they trusted people that either didn't do their homework, or were deliberately misleading them.

It obviously is in your interest to tell these stories as your angle is "buy from me, you can trust me but no-one else". I have heard that a lot from used car salesmen too.

[Golfingworld]

Ralph, you are in for a rough ride my friend. I've spent three months as a lone voice pointing out a few discrepancies in some of the practices related to "off plan" sales in Brazil. I have weathered the storm and a few like you have come out of the woodwork, slowly and surely. You keep up the good work as this site is not only for those who want to claim that the fast route to profit is through an Agent located 5000 miles from Brazil! But what you have to bear in mind is some have fallen for this dream and understandably they don't want to hear about the fact their might be some risk and hassle involved. Having said that we live in a domocracy and some will find your comments interesting, useful and practical..and some may be willing to learn from your experiences. I have lived and worked abroad all my life and trust me when it came to ripping me off, be it for a beer a car or a property, my countrymen were often the first in the queue. We naively trust our own nationalities first as we can communicate easily...in myexperience there is no substitute for local knowledge and you keep commenting as clearly you have it and that is invaluable to those who are impartial.

[RalphJ]

Originally Posted by beenthere

It obviously is in your interest to tell these stories as your angle is "buy from me, you can trust me but no-one else". I have heard that a lot from used car salesmen too.

Beenthere, you can think whatever you may like. It doesn't matter to me if anyone buys from me. What matters is they do it the correct way and are informed before they make their investment. When people like you post and appear "upset" at the posts I've made and the true stories I've told, it makes me believe you have "other agendas" than honest ones.

Hopefully some of the actual english homeowners at Viva Vida will post here soon. And they will tell you, I've helped them not only at "no cost", but have had problems and actually lost money in helping them! I've been living here for ten years, I've been taken advantage of because of my ignorance of the marketplace, and I hate it when I see it happen to others. It doesn't happen to me anymore, I speak fluent portuguese, I have brazilian children, I have a brazilian business, I finally have reputable lawyers, accountants, and architects that work for me after years of costly trial and error. I'm not preying on those that are ill-informed about the marketplace they're investing in. You see, I've made Brazil my home. I'm not in the position to collect several hundred thousand or millions of pounds and take off running....I have too much to lose from a personal as well as financial standpoint.

Golfingworld...thank you for your comments and observations!

[beenthere]

Originally Posted by RalphJ

Beenthere, you can think whatever you may like. It doesn't matter to me if anyone buys from me. What matters is they do it the correct way and are informed before they make their investment. When people like you post and appear "upset" at the posts I've made and the true stories I've told, it makes me believe you have "other agendas" than honest ones.

Hopefully some of the actual english homeowners at Viva Vida will post here soon. And they will tell you, I've helped them not only at "no cost", but have had problems and actually lost money in helping them! I've been living here for ten years, I've been taken advantage of because of my ignorance of the marketplace, and I hate it when I see it happen to others. It doesn't happen to me anymore, I speak fluent portuguese, I have brazilian children, I have a brazilian business, I finally have reputable lawyers, accountants, and architects that work for me after years of costly trial and error. I'm not preying on those that are ill-informed about the marketplace they're investing in.

Golfingworld...thank you for your comments and observations!

My only motive is pointing out when people like Golfxxxx and yourself make wild claims about everyone being crooked and all prices being over the top with either no evidence or statistically irrelevant evidence. One case of people getting ripped off doesn't mean everyone is getting ripped off.

My other motive is that I love baiting the baiters .....

Reading what you just said again, I stand by my comments about what your motives are though.