Golfing in North East Brasil

[michaelbush]

Originally Posted by deedee1

Hi all,



Are you telling me that all these golfers are either a figment of my imagination or nuts or just plain stupid or all of the above????

Guess you have hit it on the head!!!

[JMBroad]

Well, as GW has taken up the devil's advocates banner on golf in Brasil I'll take up the other side and be just as extreme although as I said in earlier posts, I'm not sure either extreme will happen, I think it'll be somewhere in between.

Not all golfers go on 3 - 4 day golfing holidays. Although you may not believe it I've even seen a woman playing golf before. Hard to believe obviously, however if you think outside the box for a second, some women play who are married!!! So all the comments about "can't tell the wife I'm off to Brazil for a golfing holiday" although they may apply to you, may not apply to your neighbour who plays golf WITH his wife. And plenty of them play golf on holiday. Having worked in the tourism industry for a long time, i've seen couples book a three week holiday and play golf every day, twice a day for two weeks with only two courses to chose from. The week in between was for walking and exploring.

Other nations play golf too. I know, it's almost as hard to believe as women playing golf, but Germans play golf, Swedes play golf, Norwegians and Danes play golf. And in some amazingly unbelievable instances, foreign Women play golf!!! So they may even visit with their wives. In some countries, Golf is a sport which can be played in comfortable conditions during only 3 or 4 months a year. If those golfers have a chance (with their spouses) to visit a tropical or subtropical country where there is a decent golf course, they may chose to do so for more than a 3 day visit.

Winter for those countries is winter for most golfing destinations for Europe at the moment.

In January, a couple from Sweden who have been dying to play golf since it started snowing and raining heavily last October are planning their holidays. Back to Spain or Portugal again or try somewhere new. Last year during their trip to the Algarve they were unlucky and it rained for 12 of the 14 days they were there and because they forgot to book well in advance, the earliest they managed to get tee-off times was 12h00 most days so they were only able to get 18 holes a day. Especially because the course was so packed that it was unbelievably slow going.

If only there was another option... Somewhere where they are guaranteed to have hot weather and sunshine and where there are very few people on the course? Somewhere where they may spend a little more money getting to but where they will spend very little money once arrived, as the cost of living is so low. Somewhere completely different from the normal Spain or Portugal. Somewhere exotic and where the courses are practically deserted, so they don't have to get up at the crack of dawn to be able to play 36 holes a day.

As for security on the courses that's something which happens in Spain and Portugal too.

As for the remark that golfers only go on all inclusive holidays to cheap destinations that is so stupidly ridiculous that I'm not even going to acknowledge the remark other than assuming it was a failed attempt at humour.

[KDJX]

Winter for those countries is winter for most golfing destinations for Europe at the moment.

This is key point for me. Sunshine golf in the winter is limited.
The Med is OK but weather can still be variable.
Canaries: yawn
Madera: perhaps but windy and variable
Cape Verde: promising but will be like golfing on a pumice stone
Morroco: Promises much. Good accessability and better weather especially the further south you go.
Florida:The main competition perhaps.

It will all be in the marketing and how well the Brazil tourist board promtes this over the next few years. Naturally they have to have a few classy courses to actually promote.

[JMBroad]

Originally Posted by KDJX

Winter for those countries is winter for most golfing destinations for Europe at the moment.

This is key point for me. Sunshine golf in the winter is limited.
The Med is OK but weather can still be variable.
Canaries: yawn
Madera: perhaps but windy and variable
Cape Verde: promising but will be like golfing on a pumice stone
Morroco: Promises much. Good accessability and better weather especially the further south you go.
Florida:The main competition perhaps.

It will all be in the marketing and how well the Brazil tourist board promtes this over the next few years. Naturally they have to have a few classy courses to actually promote.

Madeira - Windy and variable

Well not really... Weather is variable, yes... although it's normally a lot better than the UK, you can be unlucky and get a week of bad weather, even though "bad weather in winter in Madeira is like a great day in UK". Windy - not really windy at all in Madeira. The issue with Madeira was that there were no low-cost flights there. That has changed and low-cost flights are now available. But there are only two golf courses in Madeira. During the winter season, together with the locals and the tourists, the courses can be pretty much fully booked. During the summer the conditions are as I described it, hardly anyone on the course.

[Golfingworld]

Mr Broad, ok let's see it another way and call it "long haul golf". The cost of getting your clubs there even if you can get a flight is ridiculous..I met a couple in ZA where BA asked for £250 excess baggage charge! Thomson currently weigh your handbaggage and screw every penny out of you. TAP wanted €80 for a small extra bag recently at LHR. There is also the current BA ban on carry sports equipment..read the press all about it! What they are doing is paving the way to make excessive charges for various items. let's say a minimum costof £50 €75 for clubs....how many golfers will go en masse frm Europe/USA to Brazil for a pecifi golfing holdiay....women or foreigners....answer very few. The mass golfing market is 3/5 days only mainly male..guess 90%. It is not a family or couple concept more than about 10% of the market. Yes people might play golf when there, yes they may hire clubs for a day but this doesn't make Brazil a golf destination at all. And, anyone who thinks that they can rent out their off plan apartment to golfers is deluding themselves. Airlines have such a massive stranglehold on what happens it is unreal....they decide how and if the market performs and when. There is no way I would struggle to Gatwick with my clubs, pay £50 extra for them, then rent buggies and pay maybe £30 per round..it would just not be good value. Small groups may go there but all these golf vacation companies, especially for couple use hotels and not apartments. Just look at golf holidays like green card golf that do exotic golf holidays rarely apartments. So even if the golfers turn up there will be very few renting so this "positive spin" angle is also not viable.

[deedee1]

Hi all,

Found an article about golf in brazil makes very interesting reading!

Although the article is 2 years old it just proves how golf has been increasing dramatically and just imagine what the figures would have been like the last 2 years also- going even more crazy!!!

As for the whole golfers only take or have short golf trips away thats ridiculous!!!

Golfers take normal holidays aswell as golfing weekendds away and even on holiday they will want to go somewhere that has a golf course aswell!!!

You cant say that people only play golf in mild conditions and wont play in places where its hot???????

So basically your saying that people DONT PLAY or are DETERED from playing golf in asia,middle east, caribbean, africa, usa and south america?????????

Come on europe isnt the only golfing destination in the world you know????

People are more tolerate to heat and weather conditions when they are on holiday- because they are on holiday thats the point- its a sycological thing!!!!!

Golf growing fast in soccer-mad Brazil - Golf - MSNBC.com

Take care-D

[Golfingworld]

Dee, have you ever been to Dubai and played golf? Its hot let me tell you...very hot...so hot that you have to tee off at 6am sometimes. Brazil does not have a golf course on the coast north of Salvador and south of Belem. The golf mass market does not take normal holidays to play golf..not in general is is male/short break market. The other mix is a very small percentage...certainly a drop in the ocean in relation to the courses "allegedly" planned in RG. Cost is another issue, not only the excess for clubs onboard. As it time...winter golfers will not spend for 2weeks in Brazil when real golfers would rather spend for proper well known golf destinations such as S Carolina/ZA/Thailand from Europe. Brazilian golfers, you are 'aving a laugh! It will be 20 years before many in NE Brazil will travel to a Brazilian golf destination, if not longer. There might be a few locals taking it up as it will be a status symbol but they won't rent apartments. Bear in mind the whole ethos of selling off plan with golf is that it is an added plus to the value....yes nice to live on a golf course, providing you are not near a par three and have to put big nets up to protect yourself but anyone who says it will increase my price or rental potential is kidding themsleves and me! I am not joking about nets for protection. So many no golfers look at the plan and think "that's nice overlooking the green" and then they find themselves unable to sit on their patio as they are splattered with Pro V's hooked off the tee. Don't believe, walk around some courses in Spain and Portugal. One course I know near Huelva has two 4 story apartment blocks shrouded with green net to the residents can live in safety. Did you think of that when you bought next to the 9th green?

[JMBroad]

Originally Posted by deedee1

Hi all,

Found an article about golf in brazil makes very interesting reading!

Although the article is 2 years old it just proves how golf has been increasing dramatically and just imagine what the figures would have been like the last 2 years also- going even more crazy!!!

As for the whole golfers only take or have short golf trips away thats ridiculous!!!

Golfers take normal holidays aswell as golfing weekendds away and even on holiday they will want to go somewhere that has a golf course aswell!!!

You cant say that people only play golf in mild conditions and wont play in places where its hot???????

So basically your saying that people DONT PLAY or are DETERED from playing golf in asia,middle east, caribbean, africa, usa and south america?????????

Come on europe isnt the only golfing destination in the world you know????

People are more tolerate to heat and weather conditions when they are on holiday- because they are on holiday thats the point- its a sycological thing!!!!!

Golf growing fast in soccer-mad Brazil - Golf - MSNBC.com

Take care-D

IAGTO - International Association of Golf Tour Operators promote holidays to and from over 73 countries worldwide. From Kenya to Cambodia and from China to Brazil (yes, they are already promoting golfing holidays in Brazil). I worked with them for Portugal, not just Madeira but all over mainland portugal too.

There are currently 6 tour operators operating into Brazil hosting a variety of golf packages in every region of Brazil and in several different states both in North Brazil and Northeast Brazil. In the northeast currently the only states offering golf packages are in Pernambuco and Bahia, however there are already golfing holidays available in both those states.

Just Google IAGTO for more info on the operators and courses on offer. This doesn't mean that they will be arranging packages into Natal and putting people up in rented apartments owned by british investors of course but it does mean that there is a market for golfing holidays in Brazil and more specifically in the North East of Brazil.

[Golfingworld]

Don't worry I have looked at these operators and looked at Brasil some time ago...impractical for many for all the reasons I have stated. Cost and time the main ones. Brazil is not a mass market golf destination and never will be it is not a factor in the property market there..they claim it as a positive but this is just more spin. Normal tourists are nervous about Brazil let alone golfing groups who want to spend most of their time in The Navy Bar! Having said that, if they go to Brazil, they can cut out the middleman..or woman in this case!

[michaelbush]

Golf growing fast in soccer-mad Brazil - Golf - MSNBC.com growing fast in soccer-mad Brazil - Golf - MSNBC.com[/url]

Having read the article it only serves to re-inforce the argument! Golf in Sao Paulo and Rio and other southern states is a totally different thing to golf in the tropical north east. Even the course close to Recife would be better by far to play on than up here in the north. We are now in summer, your winter and today it is again 34' C. Winter here is also hot - just more rain! and 25000 golfers spending an average of $6000 dollars each tells more - game for the brasilian rich in the south! Minimum wage here R$380 per month! Teachers on
R$1200 per month!! population around 200million today. Natal population around 800,000. How many golf courses are planned in RN? Even if I were a golfer, nothing would convince me that the game belongs in this part of Brasil, or Dubai for that matter! But then many golfers I am sure would disagree, which is why I started the thread in the first place- I said it may prove controversial!!