Golfing in North East Brasil

[Golfingworld]

Not at all the thread is interesting as it is property related...all these off plans are sold on the golf/spa/resort concept. Naive investers believe this nonsense and it is important that they are debated so everyone can make up their own mind. Personally, if I had £1500 to spend on a golf trip for 2 weeks, I'd go to Pebble Beach or South Africa..not to Brazil. Brazil has lots of things to offer but not golf. Only other plce I'd like to go is Casa de Campo "Teeth of the dog" course in Sto Domingo but there they want USD 150+ per round. Someone got the idea that golfers are rich and some bright spark will think the same in Brazil and price it out of the market....for that reason, as The Dragons would say.."I am out"!

[deedee1]

Hi all,

I appreciate all the comments and DO UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE SAYING regarding cost, heat and popularuty of golf in NE brazil!!

But the fact remains that YES it will not become a golfing mecca destination but yes if you build it and promote it then people will come!!

Not for 3-4 days golfing trips of course but will tie a little golf into their 2-3 week holiday with the family as this happens when people are keen golfers!!

Being within a golf resort development and having property there will add value to your property as it always does anywhere around the world!!!

I just find it obserd that people seem to think that brazil is an acception to lots of other similar countries!!

The main golfers will be foreigners- no doubt about that!!!!

SO LETS TALK ABOUT FOOTBALL AND OTHER SPORT IN BRAZIL!!!

Is the climate too HOT to play football or maintain the pitches or
other outdoor sports also????
Not from what I can make out!!!

Take care-D

[JMBroad]

I on the other hand would much prefer to go to Brazil with my 1500 than to South Africa or Pebble Beach. But thank heavens for people with different tastes.

[Golfingworld]

Dee, golf is very specific as a hobby and unless you are into it you don't get it. People don't take their families on golfing holidays...full stop. Golfers escape their families (and wives or husbands)) for golfing trips. The whole point here is that there is absulutely nothing in the golf concept that will add extra stimulus to the property market in NE Brazil apart from appearance of these developments. It will not increase property values, it will not suck in lots of tourists, just because there are 10 golf courses in Natal. Trust me, I (was) obsessed with golf and apart from Oz there is nowhere I haven't been to to play, hot and cold. The whole point of these debates is that all this offplan business is about hype and talking up the positives. Golf has been used as one of these, but if you've ever been to Murcia or Dubai, you'll know that either the residents haven't yet got a golf course to look at, or the golfers are trying to put out wit a pnuematic drill in the background. If you are a proper golfer and not just usingyour trip as an alibi then you go to proper golf courses and there aint one in NE Brazil and won't be for at least 10/15 years. Plus if Europeans want sun, sea villas and mainly golf then go to Sharm El Sheikh much cheaper and easier to get to. So, point is..more hype from the offplan "talking up" industry.

[michaelbush]

Hi Dee
your point about other sports could be valid if they played in the heat of the day here in the north. They either play late afternoon or in the evenening, and whist the season does run into the hotter season, they play through their winter months on the whole. They also play Footsal - 5 a side on a covered small pitch. Basketball ,volley footvolley and of course it is hot, but these games are not 3-4 hours in blistering heat, and many are in covered protected form the sun, pitches. Brasil too, is not like other countries- it is huge and has several DIFFERENT CLIMATES, RANGING FROM TEMPERATE in the south TO EQUATORIAL in the north- which is why my opinion is, that for Brasil, the northern equatrial climate does not suit golf.

[deedee1]

Hi all,

GW-It sounds like youve contradicted yourself here a bit as you compared brazil to egypt????

You are saying it will not work in brazil but will in egypt why?????

As egypt has also the blistering heat conditions also, aswell as being only a few hours flight difference !!

People who go to egypt WILL INFACT go on real holidays and not 3-4 day golfing trips and will tie golf in with their holiday stay out there!!
The reason I say this is that egypt currently does not have enough flights or flexibility in flights schedules to cater for short trips as it consists of weekly tour operators and package deals primarily!!!

Also how do they mainatin their courses in the blistering heat??? After all egypt is a desert!!! As is dubai and morrocco to name a few!!!

Take care-D

[JMBroad]

Originally Posted by Golfingworld

Dee, golf is very specific as a hobby and unless you are into it you don't get it. People don't take their families on golfing holidays...full stop. Golfers escape their families (and wives or husbands)) for golfing trips. The whole point here is that there is absulutely nothing in the golf concept that will add extra stimulus to the property market in NE Brazil apart from appearance of these developments. It will not increase property values, it will not suck in lots of tourists, just because there are 10 golf courses in Natal. Trust me, I (was) obsessed with golf and apart from Oz there is nowhere I haven't been to to play, hot and cold. The whole point of these debates is that all this offplan business is about hype and talking up the positives. Golf has been used as one of these, but if you've ever been to Murcia or Dubai, you'll know that either the residents haven't yet got a golf course to look at, or the golfers are trying to put out wit a pnuematic drill in the background. If you are a proper golfer and not just usingyour trip as an alibi then you go to proper golf courses and there aint one in NE Brazil and won't be for at least 10/15 years. Plus if Europeans want sun, sea villas and mainly golf then go to Sharm El Sheikh much cheaper and easier to get to. So, point is..more hype from the offplan "talking up" industry.

GW, YOU might go on golfing trips to escape your wife or family but that doesn't mean the rest of us do. I don't, and my parents don't, my brother doesn't and my uncle doesn't either. And having managed a golf hotel, I can tell you although we did get the occasional golfer on his own (or very rarely a group of ten golfers) those were the exception, not the rule. Now I'm not saying that that hotel was the typical golf hotel. But I've also been administrative manager for a resort golf course and once again, although we got "couples" of husbands at the course playing, more often than not their spouses were back at the hotel near the pool.

We all have personal frames of reference. The hardest thing there is is to stop thinking like you normally do and consider how other people might think and how they might act. What makes you a specialist on the holiday trends of European golfers of all ages and backgrounds? You are a golfer? Well I'm a golfer, I've managed a 5 star resort golf hotel and a resort golf course and I don't believe for a second that all golfers use the game to make short haul trips to get away from their spouses for 3-4 days at a time ONLY. They may do that but they weren't doing ONLY that when I was running those businesses.

Oh and if you are wondering how I know that, it's easy... It was a nightmare for us to try and get a lone golfer a tee-time in winter because the tee-times were almost all four-balls. In the summer no one cared because the courses were empty anyway so they could just stroll on out onto the course.

[deedee1]

Hi all,

GW-I understand what your saying but broad is right!!!!

You are pressuming that all golf trips are 3-4 day trips only when that is not the case!!!

My family are all keen golfers and they play once a week at a local course- my husband and his best friend are currelty in ireland on a 2 day golfing trip aswell!!

But my family members also go on 2 weeks holidays and the men play golf everyother day out there whilst the women and children laze around the pool and go shopping on their hubbies credit cards as ways of compensation for them going off and playing golf without them!!! THIS IS THE NORM!!!!

So it pleases all the men they can golf and the women can enjoy abusing their credit cards in the meantime in order to keep the missus happy!!!!

As for egypt again not a 3-4day golf mecca destination- In fact I dont know one person whos golfed in egypt or intends to do so at all!!!!

Property purchase is a matter of peoples individual preferance and hobbies and interests!!
a golfer will be more enticed to purchase within a golf resort rather than somewhere else, a beach fanatic will purchase by the beach, someone who enjoys the buzz of cities will buy in a city location etc...etc!!!

So just because one persons preferance is different to another does not mean it wont work or will be a failure!!

ITS A CASE OF UNDERSTANDING OTHER PEOPLE WANT AND NEEDS AND NOT JUST YOUR OWN PREFERANCE!!
Just because someone has different needs and wants to yourself does not mean that they are wrong in their jugdements- IN FACT THE OPPOSITE!!!

Take care-D

[michaelbush]

I was out for an early beer last night in Ponta Negra and met an English couple on holiday with Thomsons. Early 30's I would say and the guy is a golfer. His wife would be happy to sunbathe or shop while he plays golf. I asked the question- would you be interested in a round of golf here close to Natal? You are havng a larf!! was the response. "What, in this heat?" It was 7pm and had been dark for about an hour. Golf is meant to be a pleasure and in the climate here in the NE it certainly will not be a pleasure. Those of you making comparisons with other hot countries need to live here to understand why I hold my opinion. Too hot to play early and as the guy commented, when you are on holiday you would not want to go from a club to an early tee-off at say 5 am and by 6 am it is really hot and sticky. You cannot do a late tee-off as it gets dark early. That is the one thing I find hard to adjust to - the lack of long summer evenings with daylight. I still believe that golf courses are only used to sell a property and that not enough thought has been given to how to persuade people to play in the conditions that will prevail.

[JMBroad]

Originally Posted by michaelbush

I was out for an early beer last night in Ponta Negra and met an English couple on holiday with Thomsons. Early 30's I would say and the guy is a golfer. His wife would be happy to sunbathe or shop while he plays golf. I asked the question- would you be interested in a round of golf here close to Natal? You are havng a larf!! was the response. "What, in this heat?" It was 7pm and had been dark for about an hour. Golf is meant to be a pleasure and in the climate here in the NE it certainly will not be a pleasure. Those of you making comparisons with other hot countries need to live here to understand why I hold my opinion. Too hot to play early and as the guy commented, when you are on holiday you would not want to go from a club to an early tee-off at say 5 am and by 6 am it is really hot and sticky. You cannot do a late tee-off as it gets dark early. That is the one thing I find hard to adjust to - the lack of long summer evenings with daylight. I still believe that golf courses are only used to sell a property and that not enough thought has been given to how to persuade people to play in the conditions that will prevail.

You'd have to do a really late tee-off time to not be finished by 6pm unless you are as bad at golf as me hehe. Well, I'm over there next week and most of my meetings start between 7:30 and 8:00 so I'll be out and about at around the same time ppl should start their rounds of golf. So I'll let you know then if I think the courses will get much use.