Has anyone bought property in Taiba (Fortaleza)?

[taureanjohn]

Hi,
Paraiso is differnet development. I too have bought in Taiba Beach Gardens (Phase 1). The developer-whom I have contacted- is Mike Colwill of Sand Garden Homes (They have a website). He answered my queries promptly. The agent I used was Beachfront Brazil. I have used the recommended lawyer and have had no problems so far- indeed I got the contract amended in my favour. I was told originally completion would be April 2008- have you heard any different?

[michaelbush]

Just one point I have to re-iterate. Do not pay money to anyone but the developer/owner of the project. You should never pay an agent for him to pass the money to a developer. And do check out the story that you can pay the money to a lawyer client account in Europe and they will register the money in your name here in Brazil! Just ask yourself, why would they want to do that? Ask the question and query the answer. When you pay money from Europe to a Brasilian company or individual, the only way they can get the funds into their account is to declare (show) the contract at their bank and the funds will then be registered at the central bank of Brasil. This is not the UK where you can trust probably 99% of solicitors.

[michaelbush]

This is Brasil where corruption is very high. There is a paranoia about black money, and if you want to repatriate your money some time in the future you will need to prove the money entered legally (ie properly registered). Otherwise you will not only not get your money out, but possibly be investigated as to how the money came in. The justice system also is different. They can put you in prison till you prove your innocence! DO NOT BELIEVE ALL YOU HEAR FROM AGENTS!! Check everything with your own lawyer- not one working for the developer! I do not want anyone to be put off investing here, but do it right and you will have a profitable and enjoyable investment.

(excuse 2 posts but I am having trouble sending long messages!)

[robh]

Originally Posted by michaelbush

Just one point I have to re-iterate. Do not pay money to anyone but the developer/owner of the project. You should never pay an agent for him to pass the money to a developer. And do check out the story that you can pay the money to a lawyer client account in Europe and they will register the money in your name here in Brazil! Just ask yourself, why would they want to do that? Ask the question and query the answer. When you pay money from Europe to a Brasilian company or individual, the only way they can get the funds into their account is to declare (show) the contract at their bank and the funds will then be registered at the central bank of Brasil. This is not the UK where you can trust probably 99% of solicitors.

I agree in general about giving money to an agent to pass on to a developer, we sometimes take reservations but that is the limit, plus you open yourself up to all sorts of legal problems as you are transferring money on behalf of someone else (a sure way to get the wrong kind of attention from the regulators).

The reason why money sometimes goes to lawyers in Europe is because it is held in escrow until various licenses are in place, etc.. This keeps the client happy and the developer also knows that the client has the money.

Most European lawyers have a special trust account which allows them to send and receive money in the clients name. What this means is that the money can be registered in the clients name in Brazil as it has legally been sent to Brazil with the client's name as the sender.

Rob.

[michaelbush]

"Most European lawyers have a special trust account which allows them to send and receive money in the clients name. What this means is that the money can be registered in the clients name in Brazil as it has legally been sent to Brazil with the client's name as the sender. "

I assume that there has been some special arrangement agreed with the central bank of Brasil for this. Also I assumed that because legally you are not allowed to start selling unless all permissions are in place this device is used so that the sales can start (reservation deposits taken) outside Brasil so as not to infringe the law here. What people need to make sure of is that the full purchase price money arrives here in their name and that it is declared on their escritura.

[michaelbush]

My own experience is that the money has to come from the bank account of the buyer. I had one instance where where the buyer was going to set up a company for his investments and since that would delay things bought in his own name on the contract to change at notary to the company name. However the money came from the account in the UK of his partner, quoting all the right references, contract etc. but was rejected as was not in the buyers name! It then had to be sent again to conform with rules.

[robh]

Originally Posted by michaelbush

"Most European lawyers have a special trust account which allows them to send and receive money in the clients name. What this means is that the money can be registered in the clients name in Brazil as it has legally been sent to Brazil with the client's name as the sender. "

I assume that there has been some special arrangement agreed with the central bank of Brasil for this. Also I assumed that because legally you are not allowed to start selling unless all permissions are in place this device is used so that the sales can start (reservation deposits taken) outside Brasil so as not to infringe the law here. What people need to make sure of is that the full purchase price money arrives here in their name and that it is declared on their escritura.

Ok, I will repeat again.

The money sent from a lawyers trust account is sent IN THE CLIENT'S NAME, you don't need permission from the brazil central bank because the money is being sent IN THE CLIENT'S NAME.

I noticed that you are talking about Gran Natal and how money is being taken for reservations. By the sounds of it the money isn't being held in a lawyer's trust account, but if it was then Gran Natal is a classic case where a lawyer in Europe would be used to hold the money until all the licenses are granted.

[michaelbush]

Rob- the reason I suggested that there must be a special arrangement is because the money you say is sent in the clients' name but not from the clients' own bank account, which was the problem this purchaser experienced. His colleague sent the money to the seller, in the name of the person on the contract, but as it did not arrive from that person's account it was rejected. It may depend on the bank's interpretation of anti money laundering rules etc. but that is what happened.

[robh]

Originally Posted by michaelbush

Rob- the reason I suggested that there must be a special arrangement is because the money you say is sent in the clients' name but not from the clients' own bank account, which was the problem this purchaser experienced. His colleague sent the money to the seller, in the name of the person on the contract, but as it did not arrive from that person's account it was rejected. It may depend on the bank's interpretation of anti money laundering rules etc. but that is what happened.

I understand where you are coming from, but it doesn't happen in this case, because the actual name of the sender on the swift order itself is changed to the buyer's name, the lawyer is not on the order. The reason why this is done is because legally (money laundering laws etc..) the money belongs to the buyer so they have to be the sender of the money. So when the central bank looks at whose account the money came from the only name that pops up is the buyer's.

I too didn't believe this could work until I saw it work a few times.

[JMBroad]

Originally Posted by HelleE

Hi,

thanks for checking. But I'm not sure we're talking about the same project? I'm aware that there's a big Norweigan project in Taiba, it's more a resort with different types of houses, while this project we're looking at is just one building with apartments. It's called Taiba gardens I, and has sometimes been referred to as Taiba beach gardens.

What's Manzanares ? Legal firm?

Buy, the way the owners of the Agent we're going through (Sandgarden homes) is not based i UK, but in Brazil (I gave wrong info first).

Could well be a different development, as I mentioned I don't know it personally and just did a quick check in Portuguese about the development and that's what came back. Manzanares is a legal firm, yes and is very well connected in Rio Grande do Norte.