Real Estate International - Help needed

[RalphJ]

Originally Posted by silver1

Who is this Keifer Robins? I mean, when do we draw the line, we can all ask, "oh yes, they say there is Air all around us but can we really believe there is because i cant see it!! " If any naughty or forged docs were in place it would these days with the internet, be a few hours to have this come out!

So i cant see anyone being that stupid to forge a document from a minister of the Government, i think good luck, they have done the right thing i feel, no one else has this on their project as far as i know so, they must have done something right! Plus it is really well written if you read it in Portuguese, anyway, I asked about this point, and basically their answer was:
"The project was presented to the office of The Minister Of Tourism in the fall of 2007, who after reviewing the project and plans, was very enthusiastic because of the new opportunities it will create for this area, North of Fortaleza not been growing as much as south of Fortaleza, so a project of this size, mixed with the way the developer is involving the entire 3 local villages and community has infused the local Government, because it will give a huge lifestyle improvement to the local people."

Now i sound like they have brainwashed me!!! I am in the retail business and i believe it is all about service, quality, value for money and keeping a good name so i feel good about my decision to buy. Is it me reasuring myself?? Maybe but i have spent a week on this now, and i have been very thorough i think. So i am comfortable.

Silver, once again, please excuse me for being cynnical, but it happens in this country after spending a decade and seeing gringo after gringo, literally by the hundreds, falling prey to the same horse****. Don't get me wrong, you may have invested in a legitimate project and it may turn out to be the best investment of your life......but there is a chance it won't as well.

As I stated before, a letter from the secretary of tourism is nothing but a tool in an attempt to gain confidence. In practice.....it means absolute NOTHING.....ZERO!

A letter from the governor of the state MAY mean a little something, but once again, in reality, it doesn't mean much either. In order to get building approvals development or construction companies here in Brazil have to get approvals and jump through dozens upon dozens of hoops from branches of the city/local gov't., state gov't., and ALSO federal gov't.!

I have yet to see ONE major builder or major company that has more than a few days experience here in Brazil present a "letter of recommendation" from a politician and that is because they know that it doesn't mean diddely. Companies that are serious start the approval process immediately, naturally relationships can be important in this process but normally it's a matter of conforming to the norms of the local department of planning and existing laws in respect to building in the area of interest and the state and federal environmental departments.

A letter from the secretary of tourism saying, "This is a real, valid, project"? Really? One should be able to verify that by seeing land titles, architectural projects, engineering projects (this is a great way to discover if a project is "real" or not, as it is IMPOSSIBLE to enter any required dept. to get building authorizations without them, and most that scam, if they prepare any projects at all, they're normally architectural), "licensa previa's" or pre-approvals, building permits, etc.

When I see this type of stuff, I think of all the lures that I've seen in the past...."guranteed rent", "guaranteed yearly appreciation percentages", "enormous discounts of 25% or above", "high pressure sales techniques"(there are many), and it goes on and on.

It's kind of like a guy that I met from Sweden here in Brazil years ago that came to my apartment one day with a cashier's check for 5 million dollars from Bank of America in San Antonio Texas. He told me he deposited it in Banco do Brasil and they wouldn't cash it. Although he spoke good english he asked me to help him as I am an American. So he gave me the check, he then gave me a LETTER explaining that the check was real (LOL!), and the letter, from San Antonio Texas in the United States....was written in british english!!

Well naturally I knew something wasn't right from the very outset. He asked me to call the bank in Texas and ask why this check wasn't being cashed....so, I obliged him. I went to my fax machine and called the fraud department of Bank of America! And when they asked me if I could fax them the check I said, "naturally, I'm talking to you on my fax at this moment." Well, when the Swede saw I was faxing the check he left me all alone, in my apartment, with a 5 million dollar cashiers check!!! He said he had to go pick his son up from school. By the time he got back to my place naturally Bank of America had already verified that this check....."isn't one of ours".



Big surprise.



And he acted stunned.



And said his lawyer in Sweden gave it to him. (rolleyes)



He shortly thereafter left Brazil after living here for 7 years.


My point in all of this silver is that Brazil is a country chock-full of corruption. And it is a country that draws the worst type of people. Don't get me wrong, there are some lovely people as well, but Brazil, afterall, is a country where fugitives from justice in Europe and the U.S. go because extradition is so difficult, and if you have a brazilian child next to impossible. Ever hear of Ronald Biggs?

So, do your due diligence. Hire an INDEPENDANT lawyer. Confirm all necessary documents and approvals are in place. Try and protect yourself as much as possible. And even then, now and again, things still go pear-shaped.

[silver1]

Originally Posted by RalphJ

Silver, once again, please excuse me for being cynnical, but it happens in this country after spending a decade and seeing gringo after gringo, literally by the hundreds, falling prey to the same horse****. Don't get me wrong, you may have invested in a legitimate project and it may turn out to be the best investment of your life......but there is a chance it won't as well.

As I stated before, a letter from the secretary of tourism is nothing but a tool in an attempt to gain confidence. In practice.....it means absolute NOTHING.....ZERO!

A letter from the governor of the state MAY mean a little something, but once again, in reality, it doesn't mean much either. In order to get building approvals development or construction companies here in Brazil have to get approvals and jump through dozens upon dozens of hoops from branches of the city/local gov't., state gov't., and ALSO federal gov't.!

I have yet to see ONE major builder or major company that has more than a few days experience here in Brazil present a "letter of recommendation" from a politician and that is because they know that it doesn't mean diddely. Companies that are serious start the approval process immediately, naturally relationships can be important in this process but normally it's a matter of conforming to the norms of the local department of planning and existing laws in respect to building in the area of interest and the state and federal environmental departments.

A letter from the secretary of tourism saying, "This is a real, valid, project"? Really? One should be able to verify that by seeing land titles, architectural projects, engineering projects (this is a great way to discover if a project is "real" or not, as it is IMPOSSIBLE to enter any required dept. to get building authorizations without them, and most that scam, if they prepare any projects at all, they're normally architectural), "licensa previa's" or pre-approvals, building permits, etc.

When I see this type of stuff, I think of all the lures that I've seen in the past...."guranteed rent", "guaranteed yearly appreciation percentages", "enormous discounts of 25% or above", "high pressure sales techniques"(there are many), and it goes on and on.

It's kind of like a guy that I met from Sweden here in Brazil years ago that came to my apartment one day with a cashier's check for 5 million dollars from Bank of America in San Antonio Texas. He told me he deposited it in Banco do Brasil and they wouldn't cash it. Although he spoke good english he asked me to help him as I am an American. So he gave me the check, he then gave me a LETTER explaining that the check was real (LOL!), and the letter, from San Antonio Texas in the United States....was written in british english!!

Well naturally I knew something wasn't right from the very outset. He asked me to call the bank in Texas and ask why this check wasn't being cashed....so, I obliged him. I went to my fax machine and called the fraud department of Bank of America! And when they asked me if I could fax them the check I said, "naturally, I'm talking to you on my fax at this moment." Well, when the Swede saw I was faxing the check he left me all alone, in my apartment, with a 5 million dollar cashiers check!!! He said he had to go pick his son up from school. By the time he got back to my place naturally Bank of America had already verified that this check....."isn't one of ours".



Big surprise.



And he acted stunned.



And said his lawyer in Sweden gave it to him. (rolleyes)



He shortly thereafter left Brazil after living here for 7 years.


My point in all of this silver is that Brazil is a country chock-full of corruption. And it is a country that draws the worst type of people. Don't get me wrong, there are some lovely people as well, but Brazil, afterall, is a country where fugitives from justice in Europe and the U.S. go because extradition is so difficult, and if you have a brazilian child next to impossible. Ever hear of Ronald Biggs?

So, do your due diligence. Hire an INDEPENDANT lawyer. Confirm all necessary documents and approvals are in place. Try and protect yourself as much as possible. And even then, now and again, things still go pear-shaped.

Wow what a story!! British English! Very funny, its good to know all these things but they seem to have every single question covered when i ask, so i am very comfortable at the moment, i understand there are a lot of snakes and crooks in real estate, so its good to know someone is out there watching, i donty know what to say, i have always gone on how my instint tells me, and i fell pretty good about this so we will wait and see, i have at the moment only reserved, i am going in 3 weeks to see for myself so, we´ll see what is real and what is not if anything. But it´s $1500 to reserve and refundable if i discover something that was not disclosed to me by HIFX so what have i got to loose right now? I cant see the scam as my money is covered refund wise.. Anyway, we´ll see.

[peterhoggert]

Originally Posted by ady1231

Hi Guys;

I am about to put down a deposit on cocnut groove land , with Real estate International, has anybody dealt with them? and what do you think about the project in Taiba?

Help appreciated

addy

[FONT="Book Antiqua"]

Hi Yawl!

I just came across this forum as i was just in Brazil actually looking at this Land which Coconut Grove is located at! It sound like i am the guy who needs to set a few things straight here.

We flew from Atlanta to Fortaleza which was a bit of an ordeal but Delta have told me they will have a direct flight this summer. I had to change once and then we stopped in the Amazon to take new passengers on. The Amazon looked awesome from the air.

After 3 days in Fortaleza, which looks a bit like a modern US city, we didn’t really feel like South American at all apart from the language, i thought i would be able to get by with my bad Spanish but it aint that easy, i totally embarrassed myself many times with the locals, i couldn’t understand much to be honest, but the people were friendly and it was very cheep to eat out. No security issues and the hotel had 7 Channels in English to keep us entertained when it was raining.
By day 3 we where meet by guy who took us the hour and a half to Flecheiras to see the land. It actually took us 30 minutes to get out of Fortaleza. It is huge.
The road Northwest of the city was interesting, Cashew and Coconut tress everywhere, Cattle and Donkeys, and a lot of trucks carrying fruits i didn’t recognize. Plenty of small stores selling it on the roadside too.
There was a lot of potholes, like New York used to be years ago after the winter snow and salt, the driver told us this was from the heavy rain, i could actually see he was surprised as we were.
We then had a blow out tire wise which took a further 30 minutes to fix. This happened with the usual South American organization skills of teenagers but we entertained ourselves by picking mangos (which were the most delicious thing i have ever eaten by the way fruit wise they were pinky red, and just on the tree next to the truck. )
We arrived in the village of Flecheiras and it was very small but really clean, i was amazed, it looked like the entire town had just swept it for our arrival.
Then we went to the land. Right off the beach which was amazingly beautiful and deserted apart from a few fisher men. We drove 50 meters up a sandy track and we were then standing on the land. I gotta say it was incredible. Views all around to the Dunes, then down to the beach, it slopes back i figure around 8 meters height difference as we got towards the back. It is nearly a mile long the entire area. Which our driver said was where the Hotel is going to be.
Then we were driven to the other village of Mandua i think it was?? This village was not as nice as Flecheiras but nothing that bad, some local kids were very interested in us and we bought them all lollypops so they were happy! The small leader of the group (around 7 years old i think) was showing us how good he was with a home made slingshot and spent 10 minutes shooting stones at a tin can!
We then went to a hotel which we we going to stay in but it was full believe it or not! But you gotta check this place out, it was awesome go here orixashotel com br. We had lunch on the beach, Shrimp and meat and it was great. Then we were driven back to Fortaleza, getting back around 4,30pm. We slept like babies that night but we had a really great day.

RECAP..

I loved Brazil, Fortaleza reminded me of Panama, Coconut Grove land wise was breathtaking we thought, the villages and the whole area fab, the road there was bad but i really believe it will be fixed, the holes were so bad there is no way it cant be fixed. I can see the future there being very good investment wise, as the whole area is stunningly beautiful, the road which goes right past the development towards Flecheiras and Mandau was perfect. Blacktop as we say here. We probably wont buy because we wanted more like a Costa Rica type place, we just felt to foreign and kinda lost there, but we are spoiled Americans with no language skills, (Hey i dont mind admitting it!) We were looking for something retirement wise with a feeling of being in the USA but with an attractive climate and low cost of living. Panama was to wet and we are still looking in Florida.

Email me if you guys want to see photos but i can say this. It is a fantastically beautiful place and i hope it works out for you guys. We really enjoyed out week in Brazil but we were glad to get home, maybe we will watch as this country develops into something very special, here in the States Brazil is still an unknown player in this game but i think it wont be long until the secret is out.
FONT]
PJ & Nadine Hoggert. Austin Texas. Feb 2008

[JMBroad]

Thanks for the details - very entertaining read and yes, Mango is my favourite fruit too, apart from Papaia (or Cactus Apple when it's really hot out). Hated it when growing up but love it now.

[ady1231]

[QUOTE=peterhoggert;29601]

Originally Posted by peterhoggert

[FONT="Book Antiqua"]

Hi Yawl!

I just came across this forum as i was just in Brazil actually looking at this Land which Coconut Grove is located at! It sound like i am the guy who needs to set a few things straight here.

We flew from Atlanta to Fortaleza which was a bit of an ordeal but Delta have told me they will have a direct flight this summer. I had to change once and then we stopped in the Amazon to take new passengers on. The Amazon looked awesome from the air.

After 3 days in Fortaleza, which looks a bit like a modern US city, we didn’t really feel like South American at all apart from the language, i thought i would be able to get by with my bad Spanish but it aint that easy, i totally embarrassed myself many times with the locals, i couldn’t understand much to be honest, but the people were friendly and it was very cheep to eat out. No security issues and the hotel had 7 Channels in English to keep us entertained when it was raining.
By day 3 we where meet by guy who took us the hour and a half to Flecheiras to see the land. It actually took us 30 minutes to get out of Fortaleza. It is huge.
The road Northwest of the city was interesting, Cashew and Coconut tress everywhere, Cattle and Donkeys, and a lot of trucks carrying fruits i didn’t recognize. Plenty of small stores selling it on the roadside too.
There was a lot of potholes, like New York used to be years ago after the winter snow and salt, the driver told us this was from the heavy rain, i could actually see he was surprised as we were.
We then had a blow out tire wise which took a further 30 minutes to fix. This happened with the usual South American organization skills of teenagers but we entertained ourselves by picking mangos (which were the most delicious thing i have ever eaten by the way fruit wise they were pinky red, and just on the tree next to the truck. )
We arrived in the village of Flecheiras and it was very small but really clean, i was amazed, it looked like the entire town had just swept it for our arrival.
Then we went to the land. Right off the beach which was amazingly beautiful and deserted apart from a few fisher men. We drove 50 meters up a sandy track and we were then standing on the land. I gotta say it was incredible. Views all around to the Dunes, then down to the beach, it slopes back i figure around 8 meters height difference as we got towards the back. It is nearly a mile long the entire area. Which our driver said was where the Hotel is going to be.
Then we were driven to the other village of Mandua i think it was?? This village was not as nice as Flecheiras but nothing that bad, some local kids were very interested in us and we bought them all lollypops so they were happy! The small leader of the group (around 7 years old i think) was showing us how good he was with a home made slingshot and spent 10 minutes shooting stones at a tin can!
We then went to a hotel which we we going to stay in but it was full believe it or not! But you gotta check this place out, it was awesome go here orixashotel com br. We had lunch on the beach, Shrimp and meat and it was great. Then we were driven back to Fortaleza, getting back around 4,30pm. We slept like babies that night but we had a really great day.

RECAP..

I loved Brazil, Fortaleza reminded me of Panama, Coconut Grove land wise was breathtaking we thought, the villages and the whole area fab, the road there was bad but i really believe it will be fixed, the holes were so bad there is no way it cant be fixed. I can see the future there being very good investment wise, as the whole area is stunningly beautiful, the road which goes right past the development towards Flecheiras and Mandau was perfect. Blacktop as we say here. We probably wont buy because we wanted more like a Costa Rica type place, we just felt to foreign and kinda lost there, but we are spoiled Americans with no language skills, (Hey i dont mind admitting it!) We were looking for something retirement wise with a feeling of being in the USA but with an attractive climate and low cost of living. Panama was to wet and we are still looking in Florida.

Email me if you guys want to see photos but i can say this. It is a fantastically beautiful place and i hope it works out for you guys. We really enjoyed out week in Brazil but we were glad to get home, maybe we will watch as this country develops into something very special, here in the States Brazil is still an unknown player in this game but i think it wont be long until the secret is out.
FONT]
PJ & Nadine Hoggert. Austin Texas. Feb 2008

Hi;

So did you go to coconut grove development? What did you think of it? Was it with the same real est int agents?

Did you buy or not? Please E-mail me some photos

I will private msg u my E-mail.

Cheers

[JMBroad]

Originally Posted by ady1231

So did you go to coconut grove development? What did you think of it? Was it with the same real est int agents?

Did you buy or not?

Originally Posted by peterhoggert

I just came across this forum as i was just in Brazil actually looking at this Land which Coconut Grove is located at! It sound like i am the guy who needs to set a few things straight here.


PJ & Nadine Hoggert. Austin Texas. Feb 2008

Ady - can't belive you just asked that. You didn't read the post at all did you?

All those questions are answered in the post except whether they visited with Realestinternational or someone else.

If someone takes the time to post a lengthy description in specific answer to your question, have the decency to take the time to read it!

[ady1231]

sorry mate, my bad

[ady1231]

Originally Posted by silver1

Wow what a story!! British English! Very funny, its good to know all these things but they seem to have every single question covered when i ask, so i am very comfortable at the moment, i understand there are a lot of snakes and crooks in real estate, so its good to know someone is out there watching, i donty know what to say, i have always gone on how my instint tells me, and i fell pretty good about this so we will wait and see, i have at the moment only reserved, i am going in 3 weeks to see for myself so, we´ll see what is real and what is not if anything. But it´s $1500 to reserve and refundable if i discover something that was not disclosed to me by HIFX so what have i got to loose right now? I cant see the scam as my money is covered refund wise.. Anyway, we´ll see.

Hi Silver;

Which plot are you thinking of buying? please reply to my private msg

Cheers

Originally Posted by RalphJ

My point in all of this silver is that Brazil is a country chock-full of corruption. And it is a country that draws the worst type of people. Don't get me wrong, there are some lovely people as well, but Brazil, afterall, is a country where fugitives from justice in Europe and the U.S. go because extradition is so difficult, and if you have a brazilian child next to impossible. Ever hear of Ronald Biggs?

I could not have said it better.... Ralph is on the money, and BTW, who is Ron Biggs? And why you people fly down to Brazil, to see property... Hell, I spent three years pounding around Rio, and I'm still not sure. Coconut Grove? sounds like a gringo resort.... when in Brazil, be a Brazilian for heaven sakes and speak Portugese. First, live in Brazil for three years (renting), then, if you like it, buy/invest. Thats what one old RE vet told me. Stay away from big developments... go to Fortelaza or another town on the coast and start anew.. Sao Louis is virgin... Belem is cool.

My two cents

[peterhoggert]

[QUOTE=ady1231;29607]

Originally Posted by peterhoggert

Hi;

So did you go to coconut grove development? What did you think of it? Was it with the same real est int agents?

Did you buy or not? Please E-mail me some photos

I will private msg u my E-mail.

Cheers

I presumerd it was from Realest International. the appointment i mean. It was these guys who i talked to thru the Chicago number so i guess it was. Email me your email and i will send you photos of the land i took. I am sorry to say i cant remember the guys name who picked us up. We really liked it, the land was great, as i said in the email above. Just not for us, but saying that thinking about this again, wy wife is still saying "Maybe" i mean at the moment it is just a huge area of sand, which was very nice, i saw fresh water in the middle, kinda like an Oasis i guess, there is a small house there which he said was the caretakers, he had coconut tress growing there, also i did recognise the place from google earth, and no one was trying to do anything other then keep us happy. We saw the plans and the huge map of the entire project, on the hood of the truck, and our guide really took the time to make sure we knew where we were. I dont think i can tell you anything else. I felt meverything was very relaxed. No pressure, and believe me i am The General sales manager for a large auto group, i know when someone is selling me something!