Arrivals in January 2008 - Northeast Brazil

[RalphJ]

Also interesting is that although some people do mention Joao Pessoa, no one on the forums has mentioned Alagoas yet but it seems to be quite popular (although nowhere near as popular as the top 4) with international arrivals - does anyone know anything about that state? Almost all of the arrivals outside of the top four were to Maceió in Alagoas

Alagoas is the state to the north of me....Sergipe. They have some of, if not the, most beautiful beaches in all of Brazil. Personally I don't like the city very much but as stated....beautiful beaches.

Maceio has been overrun with Italians lately, as many cities throughout the northeast. Unfortunatel they can be generalized, in my experience and opinion, as sex tourists. And this is not the type of tourism Brazil needs. You can believe me when I say that generally Brazilians absolutely do not like this type of tourist or even investor and normally produces a negative sentiment and/or effect. Places like Fortaleza have become "hot" tourist destinations over the last 5 years or so but generally speaking are not a "class A" type of tourists or investors. Fortaleza is now known as one of the largest destinations in the world for sex tourism. Not exactly the ideal place to bring ones family.

[Golfingworld]

Ralph, there are planeloads of 22 year olds going in their thousands to Ibiza, Falaraki or Torremolinos all looking to get laid and drunk...as much as possible...whether you like it or not Spain and Greece built their tourism industry on these markets. The fact is, and I know as a single man, that there are thousands of Brasilian women who like the attention of "gringos" as it might give them a better life.....the problem lies with the local economy and not those that travel there for a vacation. Except of course those that are seeking things illegal, but again this lies with local law enforcement. If there is an enfermity, it needs to be cut at source rather than treating the symptoms.

[Celt]

Originally Posted by RalphJ

Alagoas is the state to the north of me....Sergipe. They have some of, if not the, most beautiful beaches in all of Brazil. Personally I don't like the city very much but as stated....beautiful beaches.

Maceio has been overrun with Italians lately, as many cities throughout the northeast. Unfortunatel they can be generalized, in my experience and opinion, as sex tourists. And this is not the type of tourism Brazil needs. You can believe me when I say that generally Brazilians absolutely do not like this type of tourist or even investor and normally produces a negative sentiment and/or effect. Places like Fortaleza have become "hot" tourist destinations over the last 5 years or so but generally speaking are not a "class A" type of tourists or investors. Fortaleza is now known as one of the largest destinations in the world for sex tourism. Not exactly the ideal place to bring ones family.

I visited Maceio recently and was very impressed. Apart from Italians there are also charters from Argentina and Chile. Most tourists are from SP and Rio however. I did not see any great evidence of sex tourism and there are some good local bars. There is a stunning 10km stretch of beachfront apartment buildings in Maceio overlooking palm tree lined beaches. The city itself is best avoided. I would have no problem taking my family there again. The beaches close to the Maceio are superb.

[JMBroad]

Thanks Ralphj and Celt. Interesting to hear such a discrepancy in opinions.

[JMBroad]

As I first mentioned, comparing arrivals only is pointless unless we can also compare spend per capita of those arrivals. We know that international arrivals to Natal in Jan and Feb 2008 have decreased by 15.74% (8.000 passengers) but domestic arrivals have increased by 23% (53.500 passengers). But what happened to the spend per capita? Is this shift positive for the region and the real estate market or negative?

Initially one would assume it is negative. Less international tourists on the ground should relate to less sales. The official reply from the government is that a shift is happening from cheap charter flight tourists who come to the region and fill bags with food from the breakfast buffet to eat on the beach to higher end tourists who will spend more in restaurants and local commerce.

For example (amounts are exagerated to get my point across):

1) Ten tourists come to Natal and spend 1 real each in a week = 10 reais

2) Ten tourists come to Natal and spend 5 reais each in a week = 50 reais

3) Three tourists come to Natal and spend 1 real each in a week = 3 reais

4) Three tourists come to Natal and spend 5 reais each in a week = 15 reais

So for the government, whereas option 2 is the best possible choice, option 4 is better than option 1 or 3 with option 3 being the worst of course. That is assuming that the aforementioned spend is taxed. For tourism related services, it is a matter of much contention which is better? To compare it to popular UK holiday destinations should Natal be a Benidorm style "drink as much beer as you can before you pass out" destination or should it be a carribean type destination? (again using extremes)

Without being too snooty, I think someone who can afford a little more on their holiday might be inclined to buy property more than someone who can't afford that little bit extra. But that's only my opinion.

Anyway, with that in mind, this is what was reported regarding Q1 2008 tourism revenue: Diário de Natal Online - Esportes

Revenue generated by tourism has gone up by 23% for the country. Unfortunately we don't have the numbers for Natal, only for the whole country. Would be interesting to see if the revenue per capita for the state of RN has increased despite the shift.

[Dotty]

But domestic flights would increaase as you can get a package form the South to the N.E for 1,000 reais flight and hotel and pay 12 times at 80,00 reais per month.But overseas tourism is down because when the tourist actually arrives here if you do not like a beach then there is not much to do and if you plan on taking a walk in the evening then you will see prostitutes hanging and sitting on the bodies of foreign men and young children begging for money now if you fancy some prawns or mexican along Ponta Negra with your family you will come away quite disturbed and not wish to return.

Originally Posted by JMBroad

As I first mentioned, comparing arrivals only is pointless unless we can also compare spend per capita of those arrivals. We know that international arrivals to Natal in Jan and Feb 2008 have decreased by 15.74% (8.000 passengers) but domestic arrivals have increased by 23% (53.500 passengers). But what happened to the spend per capita? Is this shift positive for the region and the real estate market or negative?

Initially one would assume it is negative. Less international tourists on the ground should relate to less sales. The official reply from the government is that a shift is happening from cheap charter flight tourists who come to the region and fill bags with food from the breakfast buffet to eat on the beach to higher end tourists who will spend more in restaurants and local commerce.

For example (amounts are exagerated to get my point across):

1) Ten tourists come to Natal and spend 1 real each in a week = 10 reais

2) Ten tourists come to Natal and spend 5 reais each in a week = 50 reais

3) Three tourists come to Natal and spend 1 real each in a week = 3 reais

4) Three tourists come to Natal and spend 5 reais each in a week = 15 reais

So for the government, whereas option 2 is the best possible choice, option 4 is better than option 1 or 3 with option 3 being the worst of course. That is assuming that the aforementioned spend is taxed. For tourism related services, it is a matter of much contention which is better? To compare it to popular UK holiday destinations should Natal be a Benidorm style "drink as much beer as you can before you pass out" destination or should it be a carribean type destination? (again using extremes)

Without being too snooty, I think someone who can afford a little more on their holiday might be inclined to buy property more than someone who can't afford that little bit extra. But that's only my opinion.

Anyway, with that in mind, this is what was reported regarding Q1 2008 tourism revenue: Diário de Natal Online - Esportes

Revenue generated by tourism has gone up by 23% for the country. Unfortunately we don't have the numbers for Natal, only for the whole country. Would be interesting to see if the revenue per capita for the state of RN has increased despite the shift.

[JMBroad]

I was there for a week and didn't see anything that would put me off. Sure, there are many prostitutes around but unless you went into Coco Loco and Azucar on Salsa street they seemed to leave you alone, they didn't harass the group of people I was with. Sure every so often one would come up and smile at one of the single men but a discreet shake of the head was enough for them to walk off.

Now, as you live there maybe you know a different reality. But we are talking about tourists to Natal and in that respect maybe I'm more qualified to talk about it than you. Because you've been living there so long you may have a very different vision than what someone on holiday for a week would see.

Running the risk of sounding like one of those "love thy neighbour" annoying spam emails, when I was living in Madeira, I used to jokingly say that although very few crimes were committed, the crime rate in Madeira very high because the amount of ppl that took the lifestyle in Madeira for granted was criminal!

I used to swim with wild dolphins, manta rays and saw whales and sea lions swimming around on a regular basis and naively thought that was how everyone lived. You get accustomed to the natural beauty which surrounds you and fail to appreciate exactly how special and fortunate you are. Living as you are in Brazil, don't compare lifestyles to Salvador or Argentina, compare it to Peckham or similar. (Never been to Peckham by the way so no offence to anyone - just remember Peckham from the "Only Fools & Horses" series)

After spending enough time in one place, the traffic starts to bother you, the speed of service tends to bother you. When you are on holiday, those things are brushed off as "cute" because it's a foreign country.

Again where someone mentioned before. The moment you become unhappy and fail to appreciate the destination, it's a good sign that you may need to move on to a new destination. But you've been there 10 years and (I assume) still enjoy it otherwise you wouldn't still be there.

After my trip out to Natal I'd quite happily relocate there for a while, just to soak up the natural beauty (and I don't like beaches) - some of the coastlines were literally breathtaking, the service (apart from the hotel) was always friendly and there were more smiling faces walking around than in Marbella, I can tell you that much.

[Dotty]

Well on Saturday I visited some hotels with plans to organize a party.The balcony prices were 400-750 diario (not particulary cheap)on returning home made some quick phonecalls direct to the hotels and managed to get the same rooms for 190,00 reais,now when a tourist arrives , walk in a hotel and sees an ordinary room (i mean ordinary)in the N.E of Brazil for rediculous rip off prices another wonder they no longer return.I have noticed on the beaches that they have stopped charging clients to sit on their chairs and beer prices are down.Sure sign things not too great here as all proclaim to be!!

Originally Posted by Dotty

But domestic flights would increaase as you can get a package form the South to the N.E for 1,000 reais flight and hotel and pay 12 times at 80,00 reais per month.But overseas tourism is down because when the tourist actually arrives here if you do not like a beach then there is not much to do and if you plan on taking a walk in the evening then you will see prostitutes hanging and sitting on the bodies of foreign men and young children begging for money now if you fancy some prawns or mexican along Ponta Negra with your family you will come away quite disturbed and not wish to return.

[JMBroad]

Well that's called yield management. Some hotels employ managers called revenue managers who do nothing but change the prices of hotel rooms during the course of the day. So you could have called back 3 minutes after your first phone call and received a different quote - who knows.

Next time you are on an airplane, ask the stranger sitting next to you how much they paid for their seat 99.9% chance you will have paid a different amount. Or in some high density tourist locations, the menus in restaurants vary prices according to arrival times, seat locations in restaurants or day of the week.

400-750 does sound excessive. I would have negotiated that as a tourist too or chosen a different hotel before I flew out. I don't think many tourists would fly over to Brazil then walk in a hotel and ask if they have rooms. I mean to try and fly to Brazil without a hotel reservation, you are probably slightly mad and risk not be allowed in the country at all.

[JMBroad]

Oh and "Preços de Balcao" are called "Rack Rates"