Brazil - Promotion, Hype and Facts

[Dotty]

The local investor is buying because the banks are throwing money at people to buy with long term payment plans,but it does not mean that if I buy 10 units in one go that I will be able to of load them all on resales that I will make hugh gains now ,why because there are so many to choose from and a lot of Brasilians are all doing the same depending . All I hear estate agents say(brasilians)is oh you must buy now there are lots of foreigners investing ,but my real investments have been within the brasilian market over the yrs and has always been (in the local market)and I would not yet feel secure to venture into investing in condos set up for the overseas investor at present(with a resale in mind)or rental income from overseas because it is still a very young market and quite pricey at the moment in terms of returns.
That is my opinion at present,but could change if I have more faith in the overseas mkt in the future.

Originally Posted by robh

Dotty,

Spain wasn't cheap to get to 20 or even 10 years ago it certainly wasn't 40 of today's pounds. Also the travel times once you got here were not good at all, i.e. 2 1/2 hours from the airport to Marbella on a single lane highway, I can do the same drive now in 30 minutes, and I have a friend who does it in 20 mins but at considerably higher speeds than me.

If prices of property in Brazil is so over-inflated why are so many people both local and foreigners buying?

I was in Switzerland until yesterday morning talking to developers, investors and bankers and they are going mad about the place.

I also heard (and saw the documentation to back it up) that there are also some buyers going through buying up large amounts of units in developments in one go.

We have a couple of US investors buying up big as well. So whilst your average punter may not be buying, a lot of other people are.

But back to over-inflated, do you mean the median price is over-inflated or just some developments & areas are over-inflated?

If the later then I agree with you, and the market should rectify that quickly enough, it is already as some types of developments in some areas are not selling at all and probably won't for years.

If the former, then have a look at the prices in places like Buzios near Rio, they are still selling there.

BTW, you would love to see some of the gumpf that gets offered to us, you wonder if some of these people have any commercial sense at all. We even had one developer who has an interesting project but insists that all payments are sent into Sweden so there is no chance your money is ever registered in Brazil. What is worse this guy openly admitted not having consulted a Brazilian lawyer once about the contracts, so I doubt anything is even legal with this development yet he is building it!

[robh]

Originally Posted by Dotty

The local investor is buying because the banks are throwing money at people to buy with long term payment plans,but it does not mean that if I buy 10 units in one go that I will be able to of load them all on resales that I will make hugh gains now ,why because there are so many to choose from and a lot of Brasilians are all doing the same depending . All I hear estate agents say(brasilians)is oh you must buy now there are lots of foreigners investing ,but my real investments have been within the brasilian market over the yrs and has always been (in the local market)and I would not yet feel secure to venture into investing in condos set up for the overseas investor at present(with a resale in mind)or rental income from overseas because it is still a very young market and quite pricey at the moment in terms of returns.
That is my opinion at present,but could change if I have more faith in the overseas mkt in the future.

I wasn't talking about investors buying 10 units at a time, I am talking in the 100's.

I take your point, which is why I wouldn't buy in a place with no hope of a rental return or resale, nor would we sell them.

[debzor]

You still have to be so, so careful.

A friend of mine reserved a couple of lots in the Natal last month at a price of £10,000, through an agent based in the UK.

He travelled there from elsewhere in Brasil, and bumped into the landowner by chance. He was offering the lots at £4000! The agent was making £6000 profit on top of the real selling price, a 150% mark up...!

[Dotty]

[Ah,but the average purchaser normally buys one or two from overseas ,whereas a developer holds all the lots and sell them off or a hugh investor buys several and sells them on and I am sure they spread their wings too and not focus in one place.

Debzor you can buy land very cheaply ,but it is sometimes difficult to get the deeds,so that would need to be checked out.Did the person buy the land and did they receive the deeds? I had a buyer for one of our beach houses the other day and when the push came to shove,he did not want to put a deposit down and had expected to stay in the property through the summer (July) until he would hopefully have received his(so called morgage )
and then say ,so sorry the application has been turned down .I have since learned that he had the cheek to have stayed 6 mths in another property using the same tactic and the 1st thing he said was "Are you english?"and arrived an hour earlier before the agent to cry his bull**** story!QUOTE=robh;56470]I wasn't talking about investors buying 10 units at a time, I am talking in the 100's.

I take your point, which is why I wouldn't buy in a place with no hope of a rental return or resale, nor would we sell them.[/QUOTE]

[JMBroad]

Originally Posted by debzor

You still have to be so, so careful.

A friend of mine reserved a couple of lots in the Natal last month at a price of £10,000, through an agent based in the UK.

He travelled there from elsewhere in Brasil, and bumped into the landowner by chance. He was offering the lots at £4000! The agent was making £6000 profit on top of the real selling price, a 150% mark up...!

One would hope that the buyer would share the name of that agency and that he and his friends would never do business with that agency again.

Eventually, the "cowboy" agents like those who charge 150% commission to sell a property will go out of business.

Again, every investor has two options: Do due diligence and research on the property you are buying (if you are fluent in the language of the country you are investing in) or do Due diligence and research on the agency you are working with.

It may not be possible for some people to visit Brazil - in that case visit the agent you are talking to or at least research them properly. Challenge them and make sure they know what they are talking about, that they know the country they are selling.

[robh]

Originally Posted by debzor

You still have to be so, so careful.

A friend of mine reserved a couple of lots in the Natal last month at a price of £10,000, through an agent based in the UK.

He travelled there from elsewhere in Brasil, and bumped into the landowner by chance. He was offering the lots at £4000! The agent was making £6000 profit on top of the real selling price, a 150% mark up...!

A decent lawyer acting on a clients behalf would have picked up on this anyway. Whilst the lawyer might not be aware of the actual commission being paid there would be enough irregularities to raise the alarm.

I suppose agents like this rely on the fact that someone spending 10k isn't going to spend another 1k on a lawyer.....

[michaelbush]

Originally Posted by debzor

You still have to be so, so careful.

A friend of mine reserved a couple of lots in the Natal last month at a price of £10,000, through an agent based in the UK.

He travelled there from elsewhere in Brasil, and bumped into the landowner by chance. He was offering the lots at £4000! The agent was making £6000 profit on top of the real selling price, a 150% mark up...!

Which area of Natal are you talking about? This goes on a lot, but I hear also in the João Pessoa and Forteleza areas there are several developments being offered at prices that are 20 times or more the Brasilian price paid for the land, just because they will clear the land etc. and mark out the lots. Promises to give infrastructure? Not worth a lot if you intend to flip the purchase!