Palma do Mar - Joao Pessoa

[Blc]

Originally Posted by michaelbush

There are several similar projects in this area. All of them in my opinion are at Gringo prices! There is no guarantee that anyone will actually build anything there. They are all selling just a plot, some considerable distance from beaches or anything. The price equates to some 30,000 R$ and more. If you are looking to invest for the longer term then you should be buying at Brazilian prices. If you want a guaranteed return then why not buy into Brasilian loteamentos. At least you can be sure that you can sell on to Brasilians who will be able to get finance to build the house or buy the house you build.

Brazilian Loteamentas are exactly that for Brazilians ,
have you been to any? they are always sold cheaply from $R 6.000 upto 15.000 the payments termas are 10% balance over 72 months so can be bought by anyone.
They never have roads apart from dirt tracks and are always in bad areas.
The houses that the owners build are never finished and not even plastered or painted not to mention the animals they keep there.
You would not want to build your dream home here thats for sure.

Ok you will pay more for a project that is marketed in europe but at least it wont be sold to the Brazilians cheaply and with contol of the site your investment will be worth more in the future unlike the cheaper option.

You get what you pay for .

Wealthy Brazilians would only buy in a gated complex anyway because of security.

Bad area nice house work it out - nice area nice house attracts thieves from the bad areas. I purcahed a beach lot in Summerville gated complex in Cumbuco frontline beach 90.000 reais i will build a nice house and be protected by the armed security on the entrance who keep out the thieves this is the only way or you can build a house outside a gated complex leave it empty for six months and see what happens. This would happen in any poor country not just Brazil.

The most inportant thing is not the price its the security and he area is the land near a poor area ? will it attract the thievs?

[michaelbush]

Well BLC, it is obvious that you do not know very much! Here in the Natal area are several Brazilian Loteamentos, closed condominiums that you just cannot enter unless you are the owner or with the owner. They have all the infrastructure and leisure facilities of your so called projected 'resorts', and are not miles from anywhere. Prices for a lot are now some 65-180k R$! Houses built there are selling 300 -700kR$ for houses depending on size. You are speaking of the very same lots that Brazilians would not buy into for the same reasons you quote.

[michaelbush]

The old loteamentos you refer to, will never give returns to those who buy at the inflated gringo prices asked, even if they eventually carry out the obligation to put the infrastructure shown in their publicity. They are rarely "beachfront" as advertised, and are miles from anywhere. The profit already passed to the promoter and the agents selling these lots. The market is therefore restricted on re-sales to other "mug-punters", and Brasilians would not look at them. I have referred to lots that Brasilians are buying and continue to buy into. The launch prices some 2-3 years ago, of the lots above, was 8-12k R$!!

It occurs to me that you sound like an agent who wants to sell these lots to gringos, trying to convince them that they can sell on, build out and sell ect to get them an exit styrategty that will only be proved when they sell. Just in the same way these people increase the price during the sales in order to convince buyers that they have a profit already!

[Blc]

Originally Posted by michaelbush

Well BLC, it is obvious that you do not know very much! Here in the Natal area are several Brazilian Loteamentos, closed condominiums that you just cannot enter unless you are the owner or with the owner. They have all the infrastructure and leisure facilities of your so called projected 'resorts', and are not miles from anywhere. Prices for a lot are now some 65-180k R$! Houses built there are selling 300 -700kR$ for houses depending on size. You are speaking of the very same lots that Brazilians would not buy into for the same reasons you quote.

Brazilian Loteamentos is one thing a gated luxury condominums like Alphaville in Natal is onother thing and a diffrent price.

You were advising to buy into a brazilian loteamento at cheaper prices than Palma do Mar you can not compare the 2.

[Blc]

Originally Posted by michaelbush

The old loteamentos you refer to, will never give returns to those who buy at the inflated gringo prices asked, even if they eventually carry out the obligation to put the infrastructure shown in their publicity. They are rarely "beachfront" as advertised, and are miles from anywhere. The profit already passed to the promoter and the agents selling these lots. The market is therefore restricted on re-sales to other "mug-punters", and Brasilians would not look at them. I have referred to lots that Brasilians are buying and continue to buy into. The launch prices some 2-3 years ago, of the lots above, was 8-12k R$!!

It occurs to me that you sound like an agent who wants to sell these lots to gringos, trying to convince them that they can sell on, build out and sell ect to get them an exit styrategty that will only be proved when they sell. Just in the same way these people increase the price during the sales in order to convince buyers that they have a profit already!

8 or 12K $R in a gated condo 3 years ago what was the name ? for this price you would have got a lot in a loteamento 2 diffrent things.

I dont sell lots here in Brazil unless in a gated condo like Alphaville ect. I remeber lots being sold in Fortim/Aracati at gringo prices like you say 2 years ago $12.000 today they are changing hands at 40.000 $R due to the new golf and Marina project due for construction January. I advise people to Travel to Brazil to view the lots/ Beaches ect looking at the Brazilian cheaper lots also, and then decide.

[michaelbush]

I have not advised to buy at cheaper prices - just the prices in loteamentos may appear to be cheap in deals like Palma do Mar etc, but in reality these 'resorts' are virtual reality and not what Brasilians would value at a fraction of the gringo prices asked. Alphaville is also not what I referred to - that is a brand name marketed in cities all over Brasil at 'snob value' prices. In Natal it sold out and not a house has been built yet! In Natal all the condominiums are gated with security you cannot by-pass ,and are being built out. You can still buy lots and build out to sell and make a good return selling to brasilians at brasilian prices.
But Google Earth with its tools to measure distance etc will show exactly how far from beach, towns etc these "resorts" are, and I wish luck to those who buy without research and a visit.

[Blc]

Originally Posted by michaelbush

I have not advised to buy at cheaper prices - just the prices in loteamentos may appear to be cheap in deals like Palma do Mar etc, but in reality these 'resorts' are virtual reality and not what Brasilians would value at a fraction of the gringo prices asked. Alphaville is also not what I referred to - that is a brand name marketed in cities all over Brasil at 'snob value' prices. In Natal it sold out and not a house has been built yet! In Natal all the condominiums are gated with security you cannot by-pass ,and are being built out. You can still buy lots and build out to sell and make a good return selling to brasilians at brasilian prices.
But Google Earth with its tools to measure distance etc will show exactly how far from beach, towns etc these "resorts" are, and I wish luck to those who buy without research and a visit.

Lots in Marbella miles from the sea which people built villas on were worth milions not so long ago, in a perfect world eveyhing would be 50m2 from the sea.

[michaelbush]

So BLC is an agent selling this type of "investment". Alphaville as far as I know was sold out quickly to wealthy Brasilians and not through European agents.
The condo's I refer to in the Natal area are not close to the sea- they are for living not holidaying. The average 10kR$ price 2-3 years ago and now changing hands at 65kR$ upwards are where a real investpr would have put his money, and is still doing so. Even with the land price tpday there is good profit to be made building out and selling to Brasilians. There are new loteamentos being created, and the infrastructure is there now - roads, power and water and street lights. The lots you see on a virtual video tour do not demonstrate this. The sales pitch is just that. Come to Brasil and see it for yourself. For all the people that write to me with a horror story here is another who cannot wait to be parted from hard earned savings!

[michaelbush]

[QUOTE=Blc;73181]8 or 12K $R in a gated condo 3 years ago what was the name ? for this price you would have got a lot in a loteamento 2 diffrent things.
[QUOTE]

BLC - do you know what 'loteamento ' means? Breaking a large piece of land into lots or 'lotes' constitutes a loteamento, whether it is in the middle of nowhere and was bought by a developer for 10cents per m2 to sell for 25000 R$ or was close to the city and was sold for 10kR$ for 300 m2. In both cases the plans have to be passed by the town hall, and other licences have to be obtained. Water and power have to be planned and so does sewerage and rubbish. Green areas and leisure areas are also on the plans. The difference is that when Brasilians buy the facilities get done right away.

[Blc]

Originally Posted by michaelbush

So BLC is an agent selling this type of "investment". Alphaville as far as I know was sold out quickly to wealthy Brasilians and not through European agents.
The condo's I refer to in the Natal area are not close to the sea- they are for living not holidaying. The average 10kR$ price 2-3 years ago and now changing hands at 65kR$ upwards are where a real investpr would have put his money, and is still doing so. Even with the land price tpday there is good profit to be made building out and selling to Brasilians. There are new loteamentos being created, and the infrastructure is there now - roads, power and water and street lights. The lots you see on a virtual video tour do not demonstrate this. The sales pitch is just that. Come to Brasil and see it for yourself. For all the people that write to me with a horror story here is another who cannot wait to be parted from hard earned savings!

Alphaville have other projects in Brazil that are not sold out check the website for details. So whats the price today for a lot in a closed condo that you are talking about.