Palma do Mar - Joao Pessoa

[Peim]

Come on guys, be nice to eachother :-)

[Peim]

Originally Posted by debzor

...Amanda Lamb...

You mean Amanda Lear!

[debzor]

Originally Posted by Peim

You mean Amanda Lear!

...Amanda Leer...? Way over my head!

Anyway I live an hour down the coast on the island of Itamaraca, and no one on TV would recommend investing here - too much of a secret...!

[Peim]

Originally Posted by debzor

...Amanda Leer...? Way over my head!

Anyway I live an hour down the coast on the island of Itamaraca, and no one on TV would recommend investing here - too much of a secret...!

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Then we'll keep it that way. :-)

[debzor]

Originally Posted by Peim

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Then we'll keep it that way. :-)

If you insist...

[JMBroad]

Originally Posted by Peim

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Then we'll keep it that way. :-)

Hi Peim and welcome to the forums.

I guess I would be described as one of "those guys (who) don't even have an office in Brasil but are normally located in Spain".

I strongly recommend, judging from the information and opinions garnered by your posts so far that you consult a professional real estate company to aid you in your purchase of property in Brazil instead of relying on friends in Brazil.

You should probably speak to one of "these guys (who) do not even have an office in Brazil, but are usually located in Spain" as soon as possible.

Either way good luck with your investments.

[robh]

Originally Posted by Peim

I'm interested in buying. Ideally right on the ocean - LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION, remember?
So I have asked local friends to do some research for me on this Palma do Mar project.
Along with 2 other large developments, are selling nearly 1500 plots, with no obligation to sell.
It shouldn't be too difficult to calculate your exit opotunities for the next 5 years.
Carapibus is a dump. Like many other underdeveloped areas along the Brazilian coast. Pipa was a dump 10 years ago, and look at it now: overdeveloped, and expensive. But that is another issue.

I think MINEIRO has a few very valid points, and he appears to know Brazil. Unlike most of the WebVertisers, who just copy the While Label brochure produced by the developer.
Did you notice that that a huge number of these guys do not even have an office in Brazil, but are usually located in Spain?
Even *** is starting a project in Carapibus - I guess they had too many court cases in Europe.

Underdeveloped states such as Paraiba have certain disadvantages. They are usually not offering non-stop international (charter) flights. Shopping centers and large hospitals are only in the big cities, and you'll have to drive to get into European styled discos. But there is still land available, and it is cheap (when you know where to buy).
And what happened to Ibiza and Buzios, 40 years ago, will happen Jacuma and, eventually, to Carapibus.

So, as long as it is available, we'll buy ocean front land.
Ideally with no roads in front.

What I have learned is that you get what you pay for. However nice the sales person is, and whatever they tell you, you can not build a good house for 800 Euros per sqm. Ask anyone who thought they could. When you have bought the solid doors, the kitchen you want and the airco, the garden looks the way you like it, and there's a pool, we're talking EUR 1200-1500.
But, compared to Europe this is still cheap.
And so is the haircut (R$ 5-10) ..........

Peim,

If you think what happened to Ibiza and Buzios (RJ) is going to happen to Jacuma and Carapibus, then I think you will have a long wait on your hands (like about 40 years ). I know how long coastlines take to develop from experience, and if you pick the wrong spot you can be in for a very long wait for returns like that. A place either has all the pieces in place or it doesn't.

As for Pipa being overdeveloped, you have got to be joking, there are strict laws on build height and density which are rigourously enforced. I saw a building in the main street demolished because they thought they could get away with building an extra storey, I have also seen police with sledge hammers demolishing restaurants that were illegally built next to the beach. As for it being expensive, that really depends what you are after regarding build quality and position, it is still very cheap compared to Europe, has a large flow of tourists which of course affects prices and rental income, plus it actually has infrastructure which a lot of other places don't.

When you say "*** is starting a project in Carapibus", who do you mean?

Regards,
Rob.

[JMBroad]

Originally Posted by robh

Peim,

If you think what happened to Ibiza and Buzios (RJ) is going to happen to Jacuma and Carapibus, then I think you will have a long wait on your hands (like about 40 years ). I know how long coastlines take to develop from experience, and if you pick the wrong spot you can be in for a very long wait for returns like that. A place either has all the pieces in place or it doesn't.

As for Pipa being overdeveloped, you have got to be joking, there are strict laws on build height and density which are rigourously enforced. I saw a building in the main street demolished because they thought they could get away with building an extra storey, I have also seen police with sledge hammers demolishing restaurants that were illegally built next to the beach. As for it being expensive, that really depends what you are after regarding build quality and position, it is still very cheap compared to Europe, has a large flow of tourists which of course affects prices and rental income, plus it actually has infrastructure which a lot of other places don't.

When you say "*** is starting a project in Carapibus", who do you mean?

Regards,
Rob.

I would assume that * * * stands for a company who is commonly referred to by their three initials and which almost every overseas property forum bans reference to because of legal action taken against anyone who mentions their name in relation to problems with their developments?

[robh]

Originally Posted by JMBroad

I would assume that * * * stands for a company who is commonly referred to by their three initials and which almost every overseas property forum bans reference to because of legal action taken against anyone who mentions their name in relation to problems with their developments?

Thats what I thought too, you forgot to mention that they are Irish.

[Peim]

Originally Posted by robh

Peim,

If you think what happened to Ibiza and Buzios (RJ) is going to happen to Jacuma and Carapibus, then I think you will have a long wait on your hands (like about 40 years ). I know how long coastlines take to develop from experience, and if you pick the wrong spot you can be in for a very long wait for returns like that. A place either has all the pieces in place or it doesn't.

As for Pipa being overdeveloped, you have got to be joking, there are strict laws on build height and density which are rigourously enforced. I saw a building in the main street demolished because they thought they could get away with building an extra storey, I have also seen police with sledge hammers demolishing restaurants that were illegally built next to the beach. As for it being expensive, that really depends what you are after regarding build quality and position, it is still very cheap compared to Europe, has a large flow of tourists which of course affects prices and rental income, plus it actually has infrastructure which a lot of other places don't.

When you say "*** is starting a project in Carapibus", who do you mean?

Regards,
Rob.

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Thanks, all of you, for those friendly welcoming corrections, or words of advise.
I'm sure they were meant well.

But why on earth do you assume that I have not taken advise from those who know better than I do?
It must have been the Caipirinha(s) controlling my choice of words, putting i too many, or leaving out some.

You all seem to think that I consider Carapibus a good investment. Well, I certainly do NOT!
Of course I do listen to my friends (who live there), and I do talk with (and about) REAL estate agents, both in and outside Brazil.

My LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION message was obviously not coming across well.

I have done in-depth research (along with my friends), so let's try again (and please correct me where I am wrong).

- Carapibus (and Jacumã, to a slightly lesser extend) is a dump, and will probably be so for many years to come
- it is not a small, chic beachside town some agents have described it
- With many thousands of plots still for sale located in the gentle hills exit opportunities are close to zero for the time being
- Poor rental opportunities
- No building obligations means you'll be living at a building site for ever
- The plots are sold 'as is' - new owners will have to apply for building permits
- Ocean views are panoramic, at best, until somebody builds in front of you
- the 'few minutes from the beach' are more likely a 2 or 3km walk (up hill, on the way back)
- as building costs are the same, so why not buy at the beach front when you still can

What I was trying to say is that buying in under-developed state such as Paraiba has both advantages and disadvantages. It all depends on what an investor wants from it.
In Paraiba land is still available, at reasonable prices. Even on or very near the ocean front.
Beaches are quiet, clean, an the cost of living considerably lower than e.g. Fortaleza and Natal.

No, I never thought that Carapibus will be another Pipa in the next few years. I did check Pipa, where a 27m2 apartment with lateral view and a lousy kitchen was offered for around R$ 250K). It supposedly has close to 600 guest houses and hotels, a figure that would not cheer me up is I wanted to start a pousada).

Yes, you'll have to accept that non-stop flights are still limited and not always cheap, and that the so-called International Airport of Joao Pessoa does not offer a single international flight as yet. But then again Recife is only 90 minutes away, and offers daily flights to Europe and several a week to the US.

Dentist and plastic surgeons might be 20km up the road, and not in the same building. Bars, disco's, air-conditioned shopping centers, brothels, full-blast forro 'concerts' from cars (5 at the same time within 60 meters is no exception), and other common forms of 'culture' and 'amusement' are also not (yet) available.
Unfortunately for some - I know. But we, and many other old farts (and an ever increasing number of younger farts too!) are quite happy to pay a premium for not having these services.

So, I hope this clears things up.
I will buy in front of or right above the beach, hear the waves and smell the sea.

I'm eager to learn! So please tell me what "these guys (who) do not even have an office in Brazil, but are usually located in Spain" could still teach me.



p.s. the *** replaced the name of ***, which is (still or again) established in Birmingham, and claims to have 1000s of happy buyers in Spain.
They are supposedly starting the Amba Park Residence have bought a huge plot in the Praia Bella area. TGheir won website (I found quite a few) have several 404 dead pages