Investing in International City

[stumbled]

Originally Posted by DianeLouise

Dear Stumbled,

I have not read all your post so forgive me if I am wrong, but you seem to be suggesting that IC is a bad investment as it is overpriced and that Dubai is heading for a crash. I could not disagree with you more, I feel IC is very competitively priced and that it can only go up in value, as well as providing positive cashflow on 100% borrowed money from year 1. The population of Dubai is growing faster than anyone predicted and even though 1000's of apartments are nearing completion, a large % of them will never be on the rental market. Many of those which do will also be in a much higher rental bracket. IC really does not have much competition. Everyone seems to be saying the prices have not gone up yet, which is nonsense and you yourself have mentioned a 'distress' sale for a studio at 350,000AED, this apartment was originally sold for around 240,000AED a few months ago. Hardly a genuine distress sale to me. Also just wondering if you still consider UK to be a good investment, simple yes or no will do.

yes and no.....i suggest you read my posts then if you find the time.

[DianeLouise]

Dear Stumbled,

For someone so intelligent and so well informed, I can not understand why you suggest Dubai is heading for a crash, there is no question of this happening in the near future in my opinion. Niether of us can predict the future, but I do hope you will be wrong. But why are you looking to invest in Dubai if this is what you feel? Thanks very much for your excellent posts.

[dave3076]

Originally Posted by stumbled

You keep contradicting yourself, you mentioned in ur earlier posts English investors don't drive this market,now all of a sudden ,because i am giving you a UK investors perspertive you rekon(i leave this spelling mistake for you to chew upon...''c'') we motivate the market especially IC??its ur Arab friend, who wants to keep IC AS A LOW COST RENTAL MARKET and turn it into KARAMA PART 2.
You must know this friend ,NAKHEEL(whispers).
English investors have bought into Greens,Meadows, Marina,they were into property long before you realised there was a yield and a profit to be made, don't forget we are nation obsessed with property, i once again suggest you don't know my position in life where my finances are concerned, so would leave it at that. The only reason any investor ,let alone an English , woud be interested would be for the yield,the capital appreciation is done ,we agree on that??unless you hold it for 10-15 years and then inflation factor will kick in to increase that aspect.

All i have asked you is for facts and you have given me ramblings of your personal portfolio, and details of your currency transfers. This forum isn't about how successful you have been with your venture in IC, its to give people both sides of the coin, and you want heads on both and those coins are rare and they don't MOVE.
About currency exchange rates turning on us they are still above dhs 7 to a pound, not dhs 5,5 when the IC project was launched.I suggest before you post something you do your research, cause the way you give out information i have my reservations what you have been rambling all along if there is any truth in it. The currency conversion rate as of today....url posted.


British Pound to UAE Dirham Exchange Rate - Yahoo! Finance India

My eyes fell on your 3rd point where you say when there is a crash rentals go up.....You certainly make my day, the only reason they seem to go up is that the ratio of the rental and price of the property gets better AND HENCE THE RETURN. EG... RENTAL 10DHS PRICE 100DHS=10% return....price dhs 80(crash) and rent(controlled by dubai govt.) rent 10 dhs=12.5% return. They don't physically go up, hence, SELL YOUR INVESTMENTS AND WAIT FOR THAT CRASH!!(LOL).
Yes, when mortgages rise it sometimes becomes cheaper to rent eg(uk) than buy, in that scenario the rental demand increases and that may move it upwards,but then if there is sufficient supply of similar properties like DUBAI, then nothing goes up!!:P

Im determined to not waste anymore of my time arguing with you, so i`ll highlight two points which typify your replies and all of your points of taking my remarks out of context and implying they are contridictary. 1. How does saying that English investors who invested early on when the exchange rate was 5.5 are disgruntled, equate to contradicting my remark about english buyers not driving prices. They must be disgruntled because of exchange rate else they`de have the same investment i and diane have got, which is capital gain positive and yield positive, in which case why would you be disgruntled!. 2. And the key word here is ramblings. Re-read your post above!.

[wayneis]

Interesting Thread Guys I am enjoying the Mud wrestling from the sidelines.

aveshbachav Rates are going Up had a call from Barclay's Bank trying to stick me for another .7% increase last week .

What differentiates Dubai Property Market from most in the Western World is that the majority of the Property is controlled by Government owned companies, Dubai Properties, Emaar and Nahkeel. This arrangement keeps prices high or as we all found out can also lower them when Nahkeel rented properties below the market rate in I.C.

This Web Board is useful for getting information out so investors and owner occupiers can make informed decisions. Its up to each one of us to sort the chaff out from the weeds, no different from any other investment where you gather information and make an informed decision that suits your investment stratergy.

Not so much about moaning, there have been several large flip flops all ready by the Dubai Government on Real Estate Projects ( The Greens Road and Juimera Villa beach access )when they received enough negative vocal responses from the public.

[stumbled]

Originally Posted by DianeLouise

Dear Stumbled,

For someone so intelligent and so well informed, I can not understand why you suggest Dubai is heading for a crash, there is no question of this happening in the near future in my opinion. Niether of us can predict the future, but I do hope you will be wrong. But why are you looking to invest in Dubai if this is what you feel? Thanks very much for your excellent posts.

I am humbled by your comments Diane, with all due respect i am entitled to an opinion?
Now, in all my posts i have given or tried to rationalise as to why the property market will or has STAGNATED(is the word i use not crash),by which i mean there isn't room for capital appreciation(NOT A CRASH). When i started off as a landlord the ideal property investment would yield 15-18%. When banks gave a mortgage on buy-to-lets they required that the return rental cover was so large that it even compensated for voids in some cases. All of a sudden the priciples have changed???if UK is saturated we need the fix anywhere else in the world to keep us going??are we addicts or investors?? To me history was never a favourite subject, but i remember the say IT REPEATS ITSELF and it sure does where finances and economies are concerned.
Being an investor and having been to Dubai on several holidays, i certainly keep my eyes open to investments anywhere in the world. With so much advertisements from the developers in DUBAI on a world scale its hard to IGNORE the rosey picture they paint, which i also agree is rosey to some extent compared to the UK, but doing my homework i prefer the investment to work for me ,instead of me working for it.
I want to run a profitable investment and i certainly take into account the hassle an investment like property causes.The simple thing is an INVESTMENT WORKS FOR YOU, YOU DON'T WORK FOR IT.
The problem here , that i notice is people are getting attached to their investments(general opinion),any negetive comment from a person is taken offensively and as tactics to devalue ones investments, lets think, people who have made money and have enough to re-invest that money now, will never get influenced by what me and u say, they will do their homework.

The reason why i feel negetively towards IC is cause NAKHEEL retained so many properties and is trying to regulate this particular markets rental return, hence stunting it's potential growth. My whole argument isn't towards a crash at all,all along i have tried to illustrate is, as a landlord, you want atleast 10% return nett or else your money is better off in a bank earning you 6-8% return.

[stumbled]

Originally Posted by dave3076

Im determined to not waste anymore of my time arguing with you, so i`ll highlight two points which typify your replies and all of your points of taking my remarks out of context and implying they are contridictary. 1. How does saying that English investors who invested early on when the exchange rate was 5.5 are disgruntled, equate to contradicting my remark about english buyers not driving prices. They must be disgruntled because of exchange rate else they`de have the same investment i and diane have got, which is capital gain positive and yield positive, in which case why would you be disgruntled!. 2. And the key word here is ramblings. Re-read your post above!.

So all long you were ARGUING ?? and i gave you the benefit of the doubt that you were trying to be intelligent.If i knew you had growing up to do i wouldn't have bothered to explain myself.

I am glad for the second time that you will try to ignore me.

GOOD LUCK BOSS!!

[aveshbachav]

Your suggestion is that interest rates will rise and the US is inviting a long period of recession then! The link is just a suggestion. I can produce links supporting my side of the story too. Its just like an opinion. Many analysts and many opinions ........ If you were Bernanke, would you choose a growing economy or a strongh dollar cuz a weak dollar means more exports and as a weak dollar is induced by lower interest rates, it means a strong internal US economy!! Thats my view............no time to search my link

[aveshbachav]

wayne, i am talking about US interest rates not GBP

[stumbled]

Originally Posted by aveshbachav

Your suggestion is that interest rates will rise and the US is inviting a long period of recession then! The link is just a suggestion. I can produce links supporting my side of the story too. Its just like an opinion. Many analysts and many opinions ........ If you were Bernanke, would you choose a growing economy or a strongh dollar cuz a weak dollar means more exports and as a weak dollar is induced by lower interest rates, it means a strong internal US economy!! Thats my view............no time to search my link

Avesh you are right in saying that US reccession when rates rise etc etc.

But what you need to understand is something called goverment spending ,and china is sitting on piles of billions which at the moment is buying US treasury bonds and fixing the yields for 10-20 years @5.3-5.6. We are not even talking about GBP and UK, this is only dollars still. That way interest rates in NZ are at 7.75% and Australia 6.5%, but Dubai's economy being pegged to the dollar that is of concern for now.
I suggest people do their homework and look for those links to post, that way we will have facts.
Bloomberg.com: Rates & Bonds

[wayneis]

Originally Posted by aveshbachav

wayne, i am talking about US interest rates not GBP

My Loan is in UAE Dirham and the Dirham as you know is linked with the US $ at around 3.67 AED for 1 US $

Barclay's Bank have increased their lending rate for the UAE Dirham