Contract Ts & Cs - Cancellations - comments

[dave99]

Never seen anything about Ts & Cs on the forum so I'd like to take views on this from both sides on the contract if we have enough members who are buyers please:

1. Has anyone had to cancel a purchase and felt really "stung" by cancellation charges
2. what do developers think is a reasonable cancellation charge (a fixed amount or a percentage (what %)
3. what do buyers think is a reasonable cancellation charge (a fixed amount or a percentage (what %)
4. do developers ever take a sympathetic view and NOT enforce cancellation charges
5. Have any potential buyers been "put off" by unreasonable cancellation terms


You get the idea any comments around this subject appreciated.

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[dave99]

How come there is no body out there interested in cancellation clauses,

or is that you all ignore the words in your contracts until it's too late,

or maybe worse still you never get a contract. !!!

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[lovesquadsue]

Originally Posted by dave99

Never seen anything about Ts & Cs on the forum so I'd like to take views on this from both sides on the contract if we have enough members who are buyers please:

1. Has anyone had to cancel a purchase and felt really "stung" by cancellation charges
2. what do developers think is a reasonable cancellation charge (a fixed amount or a percentage (what %)
3. what do buyers think is a reasonable cancellation charge (a fixed amount or a percentage (what %)
4. do developers ever take a sympathetic view and NOT enforce cancellation charges
5. Have any potential buyers been "put off" by unreasonable cancellation terms


You get the idea any comments around this subject appreciated.

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Well - I am currently investigating this with my agent at the moment as we have purchased a property on the Suleder development with a view of it being ready March 08. Obviously this isnt going to be the case and I am now thinking of getting us out there in January to assess our options rather than continuing with the Suleder purchase - there are a few other factors as well that have arisen now I can see actual 'reallife' photos of the development and not artists impressions! Anyhow, we have made the first payment of circa £18K including an initial reservation fee of £1000.00. Now, I think that a reasonable cancellation fee at this stage would be £1000.00 - the original reservation fee. Obviously if i was going to cancel on completion day I would expect to pay a higher cancellation charge - somewhere in the region of 10%-15% I would think is fair to all parties. In the contract (that i havent signed yet!) it states that there is a canx charge of 25% which I think is high. I will keep you posted on how I get on the the agent should we decide to cancel!

[dave99]

Originally Posted by lovesquadsue

Well - I am currently investigating this with my agent at the moment as we have purchased a property on the Suleder development with a view of it being ready March 08. Obviously this isnt going to be the case and I am now thinking of getting us out there in January to assess our options rather than continuing with the Suleder purchase - there are a few other factors as well that have arisen now I can see actual 'reallife' photos of the development and not artists impressions! Anyhow, we have made the first payment of circa £18K including an initial reservation fee of £1000.00. Now, I think that a reasonable cancellation fee at this stage would be £1000.00 - the original reservation fee. Obviously if i was going to cancel on completion day I would expect to pay a higher cancellation charge - somewhere in the region of 10%-15% I would think is fair to all parties. In the contract (that i havent signed yet!) it states that there is a canx charge of 25% which I think is high. I will keep you posted on how I get on the the agent should we decide to cancel!

If you have not signed anything yet you have no real contract and that means that BOTH of you can now opt out at a "reasonable" charge - there is no doubt that in the UK 25% charge would never stand up in court.

Do you have any letters from the developer stating the completion date.

Did the agent make any statements on delivery date.

Why do you think that 10% to 15% is fair to cancel, at any stage ???

Did you get any legal advice before sending your money.

Did you get a receipt for all the money paid.

Is there a penalty clause for the developer being late.


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[lovesquadsue]

Originally Posted by dave99

If you have not signed anything yet you have no real contract and that means that BOTH of you can now opt out at a "reasonable" charge - there is no doubt that in the UK 25% charge would never stand up in court.

Do you have any letters from the developer stating the completion date.

Did the agent make any statements on delivery date.

Why do you think that 10% to 15% is fair to cancel, at any stage ???

Did you get any legal advice before sending your money.

Did you get a receipt for all the money paid.

Is there a penalty clause for the developer being late.


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Well its my view that if I was to pull out of the contract on completion day then i would feel ok with paying a canx charge of 10% ish - I would expect to pay something in this region if i pulled out at such a late stage.
Yes I have a lawyer and a contract (i just havent signed it yet!). I had a written statement from the agent confirming the purchase price and a completion date of 31st March 2008. There is a penalty clause written into the contract that states that in the event of delay beyond 1st April 2008 the first party(the developer) are obliged to pay 750EGP for every delaying week which would be deducted from the final payment. If we do decide to cancel I would at this stage accept losing the £1000.00 reservation fee. Obviously, these are only my own personal thoughs and what I would be prepared/expect to loose !

[dave99]

Originally Posted by lovesquadsue

Well its my view that if I was to pull out of the contract on completion day then i would feel ok with paying a canx charge of 10% ish - I would expect to pay something in this region if i pulled out at such a late stage.
Yes I have a lawyer and a contract (i just havent signed it yet!). I had a written statement from the agent confirming the purchase price and a completion date of 31st March 2008. There is a penalty clause written into the contract that states that in the event of delay beyond 1st April 2008 the first party(the developer) are obliged to pay 750EGP for every delaying week which would be deducted from the final payment. If we do decide to cancel I would at this stage accept losing the £1000.00 reservation fee. Obviously, these are only my own personal thoughs and what I would be prepared/expect to loose !

Have you been told that YOUR apartment will be late, if so by how much.

There is still a chance that all sold apartments could be ready, even if the gardens and pool etc may not be.

If you are to get £750 a WEEK, then I'd be praying for a delay (are you sure about this figure).

If your real concern is that it will NEVER be finished then regular photos and progress updates via the board should be a real help to you.

Do you have the names of any other owners, if not ask the agent to put you in touch with some - all my owners already know each other through our owners club and we're still 12 months from being ready.

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[Peter Mitry]

I think this is 750 Egyptian pounds which is nearer to 70 GBP per week!

[lovesquadsue]

Originally Posted by dave99

Have you been told that YOUR apartment will be late, if so by how much.

There is still a chance that all sold apartments could be ready, even if the gardens and pool etc may not be.

If you are to get £750 a WEEK, then I'd be praying for a delay (are you sure about this figure).

If your real concern is that it will NEVER be finished then regular photos and progress updates via the board should be a real help to you.

Do you have the names of any other owners, if not ask the agent to put you in touch with some - all my owners already know each other through our owners club and we're still 12 months from being ready.

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No it is 750 EGYPTIAN POUNDS per week so about £75 GBP - so not much really! If it was £750 GBP per week i would be quite prepared to wait!!!!!!
Not been told anything definite re delays but info coming from Egypt is its going to be at least sept 08! Going to an 'Egyptian Night' being held by our agent in Liverpool on Thursday night where we will meet other buyers, developers, furniture people etc over a meal and a few drinks with belly dancing! Should be good and a chance to see what others have to say. My main concern really is the timescales as I was really looking to start splitting my time between UK and Egypt from early next year and not late next year. The only other concern I have is what I have read about the lack of sun due to the building height and design - need to investigate this more!!!!!

[dave99]

Originally Posted by lovesquadsue

No it is 750 EGYPTIAN POUNDS per week so about £75 GBP - so not much really! If it was £750 GBP per week i would be quite prepared to wait!!!!!!
Not been told anything definite re delays but info coming from Egypt is its going to be at least sept 08! Going to an 'Egyptian Night' being held by our agent in Liverpool on Thursday night where we will meet other buyers, developers, furniture people etc over a meal and a few drinks with belly dancing! Should be good and a chance to see what others have to say. My main concern really is the timescales as I was really looking to start splitting my time between UK and Egypt from early next year and not late next year. The only other concern I have is what I have read about the lack of sun due to the building height and design - need to investigate this more!!!!!

See if you can get names at the "do" and form your own club if the agent is not willing to organise it.

Has this developer got other properties that you could maybe "use" during the delay.

Do you know "why" there is a delay.

If it's due to poor cash flow you've no chance of getting your money back I suspect.

Do not pay anything else until you get more information that gives you confidence that it will be completed.

Is there a sun roof for you too use - it looks a big place so there may be one, even if no pool you'll get your sun.

If you need a pool in the sun then you may well be out of luck anywhere in the area where you have chosen - they all seem to be built to face the sea with high walls around the pool / garden area.

It is one of the things that I learnt before designing my apartments in the Arabia district - we are only blocked around 2 sides and the sun will be over the pool for at least 2/3 of the day, AND we have a sun roof !!!.


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[dave99]

Originally Posted by lovesquadsue

No it is 750 EGYPTIAN POUNDS per week so about £75 GBP - so not much really! If it was £750 GBP per week i would be quite prepared to wait!!!!!!
Not been told anything definite re delays but info coming from Egypt is its going to be at least sept 08! Going to an 'Egyptian Night' being held by our agent in Liverpool on Thursday night where we will meet other buyers, developers, furniture people etc over a meal and a few drinks with belly dancing! Should be good and a chance to see what others have to say. My main concern really is the timescales as I was really looking to start splitting my time between UK and Egypt from early next year and not late next year. The only other concern I have is what I have read about the lack of sun due to the building height and design - need to investigate this more!!!!!

Hi
Did you get any more info at your little "do" - did you organise any sort of owners group ??

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