Problems Getting Refund Following Cancellation

[lovesquadsue]

Originally Posted by dave99

Getting more tricky

If no written contract then the only possible authority that may be thought to exist is going to verbal.
This would seem as though it willcome down to who said what to whom and who is going to be believed.

Are there any e-mails that would support that you stated that no money should be released.
What about anything that you may have e-mailed about reserving a specific apartment - this would indicate your likely (but not absolute) wish to proceed to at least the first stage.

Why did you actually pay any money - was this a request by the agent, the lawyer, or the developer.

Was the money a deposit or a reservation FEE, do you have anything that states that this payment is fully refundable if not proceeding.

Sorry for all the questions - maybe you might want to go PM if not happy to make all this too public.
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I fear that in Egypt a verbal agreement is enough to exchange contracts on. We did have a conversation with the lawyer saying that everything was generally ok with contract and once the few issues we had were rectified we would sign. I cant see what the point is in having a contract though if you dont have to sign it.... ??
We recd a letter from our agent asking us to pay the first stage deposit monies totalling 40% of the purchase price into the lawyers account as soon as possible - the agents KNEW at this stage that we had no contracts.
We did choose a specific apartment with the agent and it was confirmed which one we were proposing to buy via email. We were told verbally in a meeting with the agent that the monies were paid into the lawyers client account for safe keeping until contracts were signed and youwere happy with everything. We do not have anything that states that the monies would be fully refundable - again we were told this verbally by the agent.
I think the sticking point is that the lawyer has actually exchanged contracts without us being aware he had done so and without us signing the contract. It is whether he can do this legally under Egyptian law or not....
Also, there has been some deception on his part as he is portraying himself as a member of the UK Law Society and has done so to us, the agent and a room full of people at a recent seminar!

[queenie40something]

Hi Sue - the contract has to be in both English and Arabic - so I believe - or this will not stand for anything in Court of Law in Egpyt. Could be wrong though!

[lovesquadsue]

thanx for the info queenie! i have had lots of help and info from people on the forum so thank you all. I should know more by weekend so will update thread then. hopefully by the end of it all our mistakes will help others not make the same ones!

[dave99]

Originally Posted by queenie40something

Hi Sue - the contract has to be in both English and Arabic - so I believe - or this will not stand for anything in Court of Law in Egpyt. Could be wrong though!

The point about dual language is that the court will use this to make sure that non-arabic readers / speakers were fully aware of the conditions, which is normally Ok except that the transalations are rarely perfect, and the court will use the arabic version anyway I think, if there is any difference.

However if the contract is with an English speaking owner / developer you and they can choose which version to adopt prior to taking it to court.

In this case it would seem irrelevant if nothing has been signed.

There seems to be sufficient "intent" to purchase that it could go either way in court, and that is the tricky part here.

The potential issue with a less than perfect lawyer may help but I doubt it.

What is needed is a sympathetic, and dare I say it, ethically bound agent and developer, to simply play fair and pay back all the money less maybe a small "admin" charge.

Maybe one of the agents on the forum can tell you if YOUR agent is part of any professional organisation that has a code of conduct or something, and then you could approach this body with a complaint.

Still worth asking the developer to recover the commission since there never was a contract.

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[awahee123]

Lets hope everyhthing works out well and you recover all of your money.
Keep us posted i'm sure we all wish you well.

[queenie40something]

Hi Dave - yes they do use the Arabic version in the courts.

Hi Sue - Everything crossed that things are more positive for you after the week - end.

This site is proving invaluable to many people. So keep the advise flowly freely on the forum.

Queenie.

[lovesquadsue]

Thanks all.
I will look into whether the agent is a member of any proffesional body today.
The thing that really annoys me is that we have our own business and if we treated a customer like this we would be in court quicker than quick! The would sue us for 'inconvenience', 'out of pocket expenses', 'time', interest on the monies etc etc etc. We just wouldnt get away with it!
Maybe there should be some rules/regs introduced to protect consumers buying abroad - after all, as a business we cant even fit a replacement window into someones own home without notifying the local authority and conforming with all sorts of building regs as well as it being illegal now to take a deposit from a customer without providing an insurance backed guarantee! Seems mad having all those regulations in place for something as simple as a replacement window and nothing in place for buying overseas!

[Peter Mitry]

Unfortunately it is all too easy to accept the Developers offer to cover the cost of the conveyancing by using their own lawyers. The problem is that this affords no protection for you if anything goes wrong, as in this case. Unless you know a good Egyptian lawyer you are as well paying the international department of John Howell Associates who are very well known and respected and members of the British Law Society. Costs a bit more but you get to sleep at nights...

[dave99]

Originally Posted by lovesquadsue

Thanks all.
I will look into whether the agent is a member of any proffesional body today.
The thing that really annoys me is that we have our own business and if we treated a customer like this we would be in court quicker than quick! The would sue us for 'inconvenience', 'out of pocket expenses', 'time', interest on the monies etc etc etc. We just wouldnt get away with it!
Maybe there should be some rules/regs introduced to protect consumers buying abroad - after all, as a business we cant even fit a replacement window into someones own home without notifying the local authority and conforming with all sorts of building regs as well as it being illegal now to take a deposit from a customer without providing an insurance backed guarantee! Seems mad having all those regulations in place for something as simple as a replacement window and nothing in place for buying overseas!

Hi

Anything new - I think there are lots of interested people waiting to see how you progress this.

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[Rivermead Global Property]

Originally Posted by lovesquadsue

Thanks all.
I will look into whether the agent is a member of any proffesional body today.
The thing that really annoys me is that we have our own business and if we treated a customer like this we would be in court quicker than quick! The would sue us for 'inconvenience', 'out of pocket expenses', 'time', interest on the monies etc etc etc. We just wouldnt get away with it!
Maybe there should be some rules/regs introduced to protect consumers buying abroad - after all, as a business we cant even fit a replacement window into someones own home without notifying the local authority and conforming with all sorts of building regs as well as it being illegal now to take a deposit from a customer without providing an insurance backed guarantee! Seems mad having all those regulations in place for something as simple as a replacement window and nothing in place for buying overseas!

Hi Lovesquad, see if the agent is a member of AIPP the new proffesional body for this industry. Even if they are not a member someone in the chain of agents/developers might be. Even if your agent says they are not involved in the problem they should still be fighting your corner and using their contacts within the industry to help you. If this is the way the solicitor works then a word of warning from the agent/s to them that they will not be receiving anymore business should make them listen. Hope you get it sorted out.