Marsa Alam

[Goldberg Global]

Ok I have spoken and tried the trio.

Stark
Zeiad Yehia
IPI UK

Stark spoken too, waiting on a phone call back to resolve things.

Mr Zeiad Yehia, spoke too, out of respect to the people paying Mr Zeiad Yehia, I can give people information who are contributing to his legal costs Other people will have to use their own lawyers. Zeiad Yehia contributers please be in touch.

IPI UK are away until August 18th.

Thank you.

[PierreM]

Howzit guys!
If you want to use the one lawyer they recommend, the one seddon lawyer, then fine but you can use any legal advice you want. Hey, you don't even need a lawyer for marsa alam.
I mean, they send the contracts and the title deeds, anyway if they f"ck up, they would be responsible for misleading and illegal information.
I think it's a european thing not to trust anyone. I mean i trust the agent and i trust the developper, they're both real and have a track record. If you think this resort is dodgy, then you should never ever invest with african developers
I am no expert in law but i have a bit of experience in investing ; my contract is in english, even if it was in portuguese, and if i had to complain in egyptian courts, i could get a translator to do it for me and ask the developer to pay for it along with court costs.
If your agent send you the contract in arabic, you are going to pay for the translation, right?
How could you be sure the arabic version would say the same thing as the english one?
Being from a 11 official languages country, the contracts are in english because if i buy in natal and i have a contract in zulu, how am i going to check it's not talking nonsense?
You know what, maybe people are finding excuses not to invest, it think the arabic concern is just an excuse, it's not a big issue. I still trust them if they say it's dutch court then it will be dutch court, if it were to be arabic court, then i'll translate the contract, sue them and make them pay everything and they would have extra issues for misleading and illegal information, they would pay extra compensations.
Investing is about trust, if you don't trust the companies, then you will never invest and you will never make good money. I am middle class and I have 7 properties now, I would still work in fruit and veg if I hadnt trust anyone.

One last thing, lawyers are business men, mark my words: it's in thier interest to scare you so they could charge you more for more work... they are sharks! Be careful with the one lawyer you pick.

[samui13]

Originally Posted by PierreM

Howzit guys!
If you want to use the one lawyer they recommend, the one seddon lawyer, then fine but you can use any legal advice you want. Hey, you don't even need a lawyer for marsa alam.
I mean, they send the contracts and the title deeds, anyway if they f"ck up, they would be responsible for misleading and illegal information.
I think it's a european thing not to trust anyone. I mean i trust the agent and i trust the developper, they're both real and have a track record. If you think this resort is dodgy, then you should never ever invest with african developers
I am no expert in law but i have a bit of experience in investing ; my contract is in english, even if it was in portuguese, and if i had to complain in egyptian courts, i could get a translator to do it for me and ask the developer to pay for it along with court costs.
If your agent send you the contract in arabic, you are going to pay for the translation, right?
How could you be sure the arabic version would say the same thing as the english one?
Being from a 11 official languages country, the contracts are in english because if i buy in natal and i have a contract in zulu, how am i going to check it's not talking nonsense?
You know what, maybe people are finding excuses not to invest, it think the arabic concern is just an excuse, it's not a big issue. I still trust them if they say it's dutch court then it will be dutch court, if it were to be arabic court, then i'll translate the contract, sue them and make them pay everything and they would have extra issues for misleading and illegal information, they would pay extra compensations.
Investing is about trust, if you don't trust the companies, then you will never invest and you will never make good money. I am middle class and I have 7 properties now, I would still work in fruit and veg if I hadnt trust anyone.

One last thing, lawyers are business men, mark my words: it's in thier interest to scare you so they could charge you more for more work... they are sharks! Be careful with the one lawyer you pick.

i think some of what you have written there is not very good advice.
I quote " Hey, you don't even need a lawyer for marsa alam. "

I think this is absolutely ridiculous. Of course you need a lawyer.

I quote " I mean, they send the contracts and the title deeds, anyway if they f"ck up, they would be responsible for misleading and illegal information. "

You are correct, they would be responsible for misleading and illegal information, but what would you be able to do about it.

I quote " I am no expert in law "

That is very clear

I quote " If your agent send you the contract in arabic, you are going to pay for the translation, right? "

No IPI agreed in the end to issue us with an Arabic and English contract

I quote " How could you be sure the arabic version would say the same thing as the english one? "

Because my lawyer is Egyptian and he can read Arabic, and write Arabic too, he is very clever !!!

I quote " I still trust them if they say it's dutch court then it will be dutch court, if it were to be arabic court, then i'll translate the contract, sue them and make them pay everything and they would have extra issues for misleading and illegal information, they would pay extra compensations. "

Do you know how much something like this would cost. I dont either and I would not like to go through legal proceedings either. Time off work, instructing lawyers, hotel costs, flights......... It all costs money.

The way I see the contract issue is that if in the worst case scenario, IPI failed and my money was lost for what ever reason, I would be expected to fight IPI in a Dutch court. Imagine finding out that the courts would not recognise the case as the land was not with Holland. OK so I will take it to the courts of Egypt. Present my English contract to the judge only to hear him say that he does not recognise it as it is written in English and not in Arabic.
The contract issue for myself was only one of the reasons that we pulled out. I am a senior manager within a large construction company within the UK whos clients include some of the biggest blue chip companys. Had I written a letter/email to one of my clients with the contents with which a letter written to my wife was written, then I would expect to be in the boardroom getting some form of bolloc*ing. I am a professional who as said works for a professional company and would never contemplate sending a letter to a client like this. When we complained to our agent, I would have hoped that they passed the message on that we were not happy with the contents of his letter and would have either expected a follow up letter from them or a telephone call from them. We recieved neither and we are also still waiting for our " FULLY REFUNDABLE DEPOSIT " to be returned.
There were also things in the contract that I didnt like. One of them was regarding the developer being able to inform the buyer that the project would not be finished on time and that the developer would get 2 months grace. I asked them to confirm to me that they would only be able to do this ONCE and not send me a letter every 7 weeks informing me that the project would be another 2 months.
The construction was due to have started a while ago now and as a realist, and a person who has been in construction for many years, I can not see this project being complete on time.

There are other factors that contributed to us pulling out but I will not go into that on this forum for legal reasons.

Stew

[Goldberg Global]

I think every one needs to relax, ask questions to the appropriate people.

eg. Lawyer, Developer , Agent and in this case Stark as well.

And get resolution. Chit chat is fine, but lets get the real questions and answers.

You pay a lawyer to do a professional job to protect you.
Your agent provides a service for you and should answer questions.
The developer gets the licences, and builds the property.

It is that simple.

Things need bringing into line. With process, questions and answers. ie. It needs to be controlled and the information to peoples questions should be put out in public.

Ideally from the appropriate party, eg. Developer, the management company Stark, the lawyers.

Otherwise it stays as it is, information all over the place, and emotions running high and a little wide, and wild.

Good luck. thanks D

[Rivermead Global Property]

I think the issue with the contract being in Arabic is not just in case it goes to court if there are issues. You need an Arabic contract for the courts to register the apartments and register the electric and water meters etc... If you have an English one you will need to have it translated before you can complete on your property.

[samui13]

Originally Posted by Goldberg Global

Ok I have spoken and tried the trio.

Stark
Zeiad Yehia
IPI UK

Stark spoken too, waiting on a phone call back to resolve things.

Mr Zeiad Yehia, spoke too, out of respect to the people paying Mr Zeiad Yehia, I can give people information who are contributing to his legal costs Other people will have to use their own lawyers. Zeiad Yehia contributers please be in touch.

IPI UK are away until August 18th.

Thank you.

PM sent, please either reply to PM or by email, many thanks

[East London]

Can't really comment on some of your Issues,but as a buyer in Zafarana everyone will be issued contracts when the resort is completed, are you sure IPI were never going to issue arabic contacts to buyers of marsa alam?? The other thing I have noticed is people seem really nervous which is understandable when parting with loads of money but please can people get their facts correct when comparing with Zaf, Most of the buyers in Zaf are very happy with IPI, yes there is a little delay 6 months which most of us get back in the guarantee rent.
and yes one of two of the saltwater pools will not be built. In my opinion I have been very impressed with IPI. There are monthly news letters informing us of developments, we have had a parties arranged by IPI both in Holland and in England. My queries are always answered by phone or e-mail Please don’t this as a criticism but find out the facts first.

Before I bought in Zafarana rumours were flying around there was a funny gas smell near the resort, some people were saying there is no such thing as a guaranteed rent, just look now there are lots of developers who now offer this!

I AM NOT AN AGENT OR EITHER WORK FOR IPI. JUST A HUMBLE INVESTER.

[East London]

i meaning to say everyone will be given a arabic contract when the Zafarana resort is completed.

[PierreM]

Stew, You are obviously very bitter as you have issues with ipi and your agent. That's bad news, I'm sorry for you.

Good luck to get your deposit back, I hope you cancelled before the 29 days limit, but I am sure your egyptian lawyer would have warned you.

You said you're a construction professional from a professional company, so what? I own 7 properties, is your opinion better than mine? don't think so, I own more than 2 million sterlings worth of properties at 32 so I am not doing too bad man. At least I know where I stand, if you see what I mean stew.

Your lawyer is egyptian, good, that doesn't make him a translator, and as a professional working for a professional company, you know that in a legal document, every word is important. My lawyers are from different countries they would certainly not try to translate a document without a professional translator.That shows how serious is yours if he told you he could translate a legal document all by himself.

My 2 lawyers have reviewed the due diligence, they have reviewed the forms and contract, everything is fine. They told me that seddons is doing a good job and I almost don't need them, that's why I said you don't need a lawyer, I should have explained, fair enough.

But that's not the point. Even if you had to take it to egyptian court, which is not a sure fact, you would have to have your contract translated by a professional, so it doesn't matter what language it is. The contract you signed is in english and you agreed to it, so the exact translation in any language will be no different.
Again, it is a small issue, I don't understand all the fuss about it. It's a detail, it's certainly not offputting.

Goldberg Global is absolutely right, if you read this forum and you're a first time investor, go to see your lawyer and personal banker for advice, compare different agencies and developers, study what's on the market, who is reliable and who is not but please do not listen to bitter people trying to scare you away.
Ask people you know and trust, not some keyboard warrior with a vengeance , they could be anyone, lawyers, developers, estate agents, who knows.

I am just a fairly experienced investor who bought in marsa alam, I know for an absolute fact that this one project and the people working on it are trustworthy and that there are good chances I will make good money out of it. I trust the people who advise me and i trust the people i dealt with. I don't trust internet rumours over professionals. I am very enthusiastic about this resort and I just wanted to share that with my fellow investors of this website.

That was just a feedback, not a professional advice.

[Jacky Hep]

[QUOTE=PierreM;70253]"Stew, You are obviously very bitter as you have issues with ipi and your agent. That's bad news, I'm sorry for you.................

My 2 lawyers have reviewed the due diligence, they have reviewed the forms and contract, everything is fine. They told me that seddons is doing a good job and I almost don't need them, that's why I said you don't need a lawyer, I should have explained, fair enough."



The DD looked fine to me in that it explained the current situation very well. I was also grateful for IPI providing it. I recognise that it works both ways; it protects the buyer by providing important information on which to base a decision, but it also protects the seller if the buyer goes ahead despite any risks made apparent by the DD as one cannmot later claim not to have known of those risks. The bottom line for the buyer is are the risks worth it.

Regards

Jacky