Recommended Solicitors

[Riccal]

Originally Posted by dave99

Hi

I have to say that the point about not being in accordance with Egyptian law does worry me, and it was maybe an invalid assumption on my part based on my contract.
If the contract is with an English company, or any company where they agree that the English version will be used to resolve disputes then I'd be happier with that.
There is another point to my reply, not made clear, in that , assuming the same contract is used for all buyers it only needs to be "verified" ONCE", not 100 times for 100 buyers, which is what I meant to add but didn't.

We have an owners Club and the first buyer had it legally checked and then has made this information available to other buyers for free.

My main point is that the contract should be readable and the terms acceptable for which you do not need a lawyer.

Example:
- if the termination clause means you lose 50% of the price - you DO NOT SIGN
- if a late payment triggers an automatic termination - you DO NOT SIGN
- if there is no penalty on the developer for a late finish - do not sign
- if there is no term covering annual increases in maint charge, be very wary

etc
.
.

All the above good common sense which should generally be enough but most people I deal with would still involve a lawyer.

However, one of the points you raised opens up an issue that is being dealt with on a thread about Marsa Alam at the moment - the developer insisting that an English contract is sufficient and all the purchasers being recommended to make sure an Arabic contract is supplied.

Where is the legislative environment here. Does it make any difference that the actual object (apartment/house) is resident under Egyptian law. Can any arbitration of a contract which is not allowable in Egypt actually be applied to the property in any meaningful way. Sure the PPC is between 2 parties who can basically argue about the clauses in the contract till they meet mutual agreement. How are any resolutions/disputes then applied in an area which doesnt recognise the contract.

If a client objects, for example, to a clause which says if you dont pay by a certain date x amount then we automatically terminate the contract and client forfeits deposit and the developer removes that contract in an English only contract. What if he then does actually cancel the contract because of these circumstances.
Where is the clients redress. Would an English civil court be able to enforce any decisions?

The answer is I dont know but surely a simpler solution is to have a contract enforceable in the country in question and a lawyer who will act for the client to ensure that the contract meets practical and legislative restrictions.

Cheers

Rick

[putneypj]

Hi Suzanne,
I'm so close to using Zeiad. He has quoted me £550 to do everything but after reading your post, i'm now unsure. This is my first time doing anything like this before. I saw you wrote that you paid £200 for POA which was done in the UK. Firstly what is this POA and secondly,do you think this is included in Zeiads price? as he said it was 'to do it all'. Also you mention a Notary public charge, again do you think this will be done by Zeiad? I will ask him all this myself, but i'm guessing lawyers have weekends off, and i need to sort out a lawyer asap. Any advise would be magic, thank you ;-)
Regards,
PJ

[jojo]

i'm with you PJ, i've also contacted Zeiad this week as we are on the brink of making a deal too. He quoted me £500 and based on the recommendations from this site i have no doubt he is true to his word. but i too want to know what the POA is and the Notary public charge and if this is extra. Im off to Sharm on Tuesday so if i don't find out by then i'll be sure to ask when i get there.
jo

[Lsab]

Check this thread from here onwards: http://www.propertycommunity.com/forum/52482-post35.html. Thi should give you the info on Notary Publics etc

[wemyss1960]

Originally Posted by jojo

i'm with you PJ, i've also contacted Zeiad this week as we are on the brink of making a deal too. He quoted me £500 and based on the recommendations from this site i have no doubt he is true to his word. but i too want to know what the POA is and the Notary public charge and if this is extra. Im off to Sharm on Tuesday so if i don't find out by then i'll be sure to ask when i get there.
jo

Hi Jojo,

You appear to be moving very rapid with your proposed purchase.

[jojo]

i dont mess about! went to egypt for the first time in april and fell in love with the place, we set our minds on buying a holiday home about a month ago, researched the area and the developments via the net, found this forum which has answered a lot of queries for us, got the finances sorted as to what we could afford last week, got in touch with an agent last week to discuss viewing when we could get out there, found a last minute flight and booked a hotel for tuesday next week, e-mailed zeiad about being our solicitor if we found the one we wanted and here we are! phew.......... its been a bit intense but ive been saving for a couple of years with the thought of buying abroad we just never found where, now we have. im 28 and was priced out of the british property market so this is my way of committing to property like us brits do. just hope everything wprks out. im currently compiling a list of things to ask and check out when we go next week so we dont just get swept up by the agents sweetalk. any tips will be gladly welcomed.
jo

[wemyss1960]

Go for it Jojo! if you need any help for Sharm then Alison (queenie) is the one.

[dave99]

Originally Posted by Riccal

All the above good common sense which should generally be enough but most people I deal with would still involve a lawyer.

However, one of the points you raised opens up an issue that is being dealt with on a thread about Marsa Alam at the moment - the developer insisting that an English contract is sufficient and all the purchasers being recommended to make sure an Arabic contract is supplied.

Where is the legislative environment here. Does it make any difference that the actual object (apartment/house) is resident under Egyptian law. Can any arbitration of a contract which is not allowable in Egypt actually be applied to the property in any meaningful way. Sure the PPC is between 2 parties who can basically argue about the clauses in the contract till they meet mutual agreement. How are any resolutions/disputes then applied in an area which doesnt recognise the contract.

If a client objects, for example, to a clause which says if you dont pay by a certain date x amount then we automatically terminate the contract and client forfeits deposit and the developer removes that contract in an English only contract. What if he then does actually cancel the contract because of these circumstances.
Where is the clients redress. Would an English civil court be able to enforce any decisions?

The answer is I dont know but surely a simpler solution is to have a contract enforceable in the country in question and a lawyer who will act for the client to ensure that the contract meets practical and legislative restrictions.

Cheers

Rick

IF the law of the land states that contracts must be in the native language to be accepted, you have no choice.
I beleive in Egypt that there is a requirement for ALL contracts involving non-Egyptians to be either, be in the language of the buyer as well as Arabic, or someone who understands Arabic and your lanuage must sign that you have had everything explained in YOUR language to YOU before you are allowed to add your name to the registration book. This applies to all kinds of official documents, including POAs (power of Attorney). Only works if you are at the Registration office (now that is an experince in Hurghada).

In the UK we do not use POAs since we effectively accept (and so does everyone almost everyone else) that once you give "instructions" to a solicitor that he performs ONLY the tasks that you expect.
There is a potential danger in Egypt that the terms of many POAs give far reaching powers to lawyers who you may well never have met.
In my experience this is not because the lawyer wants or needs all this power but the registration office will often refuse a POA that seems to be too restrictive, and if it is not accepted it is a real pain if you're not there to sign a new one.

Anyway the basic of a contract - it MUST be in two languages for non Egyptians otherwise it has no value in a legal dispute in Egypt when you cannot understand what is stated.
My point about accepting that the English version has preferance lies in the belief that if both parties understand English, and not Arabic, then you can instruct your relative legal representative in EGYPT to use the ENGLISH words to determine the INTENT of a clause NOT the strange interpretations sometimes written in Arabic.
Biggest problem with this is that you will most likely not be able to get an English lawyer to represent you, so it will be sub-contracted to someone in Egypt who can speak both languages, at a substantial cost.
Far better to agree upfront about all the terms and conditions in ENGLISH, and get both parties to agree to ENGLISH version, not the transalation to Arabic.

You can usually tell an Egyptian contract translated to English, rather than the other way around, because you'll find some odd words that leave you wondering what is meant - this is when you'll have a problem if you do not get it re-translated by someone other than the seller, into English that you understand.
Some words do NOT translate well and often there can be a difference that you need to know about in order to be happy with the terms.

Contracts are as much about trust as they are about the words

If you do not trust the person you are buying rom then a wriiten contract is a poor way to give you confidence. Make the effort to find out who you are dealing with and if you believe that the will deal fairly with you in a dispute, WITHOUT having to go to court in a foreign country.

There are official translation services who must stamp there work and become responsible for the accuracy - you do NOT need an expensive lawyer to get this done, but you do need to know where to look, which often makes it impossible. An agent cpuld maybe help here and get you a new transaltion to check the original if you have any doubts.

,

[Lsab]

Dave99 - very informative post, made for interesting reading.

[dave99]

Originally Posted by Lsab

Dave99 - very informative post, made for interesting reading.

Just passing on personal experience.

.
.