Croatia, Montenegro - newby to the game!

[Mike -NewOverseasInvestor]

I am new to the property game and looking to get started in the lower eastern block in Europe to begin with... I have just visited Montenegro & Croatia & feel inlove with Croatia... Montenegro I know is on the up but the attitude here is vastly different to that in Croatia & I feel Croatia is still a very good market to invest in if you spend the time on the ground to find the right deals!

I am looking for advise though on how I best get into the property game... I have maybe 30K Euro cash so being my first deal, I really need a mortgage or business loan of some type but I am not sure where to go? Should I do this in the UK or go direct to the country I want to invest in? I understand this is pretty impossible in Croatia at the moment... Any input would be highly regarded!

Oh yes, while in Montenegro, I spoke with several locals and they said outside of the major new developments, most ruins, older properties etc... were being put aside for the Russians who work with good old fashioned cash! I guess this puts me of dealing in this market as I simply can not compete with rich russians who have far too much loose cast to throw around! - Croatia though I felt a little safer... Thoughts????

Best Regards
Mike

[B&I]

Hi Mike,

Four years ago I was in the same situation, i was in love with Croatia and i could not get anywhere.

Montenegro on the other hand is a nice country but one has to be very careful. I had considered Montenegro but in the end I chose Croatia. Lately i heard that in Montnegro there will be a lot of changes in the legislation with regards to property, building permits and zoning.

Investing in Croatia turned out to be a wise decision for me and nowadays I own my own real estate agency and project management firm. The situation with the banks has improved a lot too and nowadays it is possible to get a business loan. My tip to you would be to establish a company.

Would be delighted to meet you when you are back in Croatia.

Best Regards
Stefan

[Stingo]

Mike - Welcome to the Adriatic. I deal in Montenegro and Albania. I have invested in both myself. Whatever the thoughts are that you have in Montenegro for you personally, it is too expensive. The cheapest off plan anywhere near the water will set you back around 90,000 euros and there will be no finance with that. For that you will get around 35m2 of property close the the sea. Until finance comes in from the local banks Montenegro relies on people understanding the long term future of an amazing country. I anticipate strong capital growth over a long period but you need to have the capital to get in. Most use the equity of their first or second homes. Russians and others have laundered cash into property in the multi millions but many many others have not, so don't believe everything you hear on the grape vine. Croatia is a wonderful country although I don't sell there and I believe it has a good future also, once they can get over the petty legislations. Albania allows investors like yourself to pay outright cash for an apartment on the water or take out the finance at around 60% LTV. Prices are around quater of the price of Montenegro and Croatia and the coastline is just a beautiful. I see this as the best investment for a majority of people as it fits in nicely as a little addition to a portfilio or for the investor with a small amount of cash who is prepared to go with the flow for the long term. Let me know if you want more details PM.

[sqftmag]

Mike, it's a funny thing but I'm in love with Croatia too! I am just about to invest over there. Every summer, I go and stay with Croatian friends near Pula in Istria. (The bit just opposite Venice that used to be Italy until 1947). Every summer I look at the properties I nearly bought the previous year and kick myself!!

I am a property journalist and have written about Croatia. (I also own the on-line property investor magazine Square Foot.) So I have done some good research.

This July, I met up with a regeneration consultant working for the Croatian government on re-developing part of the Istrian coastline. It will be transformed from a quaint fisherman's village into a 5* marina with top-end villas and restaurants. Bizarrely, the transformation is to take place in the very town I've visited annually for the past 7 years.

I have teamed up with this Croatian consultant to find me properties in the area for investments with friends. I'll be hosting a recce in Spring 2008. I'm keeping pretty quiet about this for the moment as I want to get in on the deals to be had before the area goes crazy. If you're interested, I'd be happy to give you more details.
Kind regards
MIchele Andrew

Originally Posted by Mike -NewOverseasInvestor

I am new to the property game and looking to get started in the lower eastern block in Europe to begin with... I have just visited Montenegro & Croatia & feel inlove with Croatia... Montenegro I know is on the up but the attitude here is vastly different to that in Croatia & I feel Croatia is still a very good market to invest in if you spend the time on the ground to find the right deals!

I am looking for advise though on how I best get into the property game... I have maybe 30K Euro cash so being my first deal, I really need a mortgage or business loan of some type but I am not sure where to go? Should I do this in the UK or go direct to the country I want to invest in? I understand this is pretty impossible in Croatia at the moment... Any input would be highly regarded!

Oh yes, while in Montenegro, I spoke with several locals and they said outside of the major new developments, most ruins, older properties etc... were being put aside for the Russians who work with good old fashioned cash! I guess this puts me of dealing in this market as I simply can not compete with rich russians who have far too much loose cast to throw around! - Croatia though I felt a little safer... Thoughts????

Best Regards
Mike

[qrm]

Hello everyone, I am Croatian native, not really in real estate business just use to help friend from London in buying property on island of Krk. We managed to find old stone house 3km from sea for less than 30.000 gbp, and it is full living area of just over 90 m2. It is just in process of renovation also overlooked by me. Will be very nice when finished as designed by arhitect from London to use space nicely as builders here are not so good in effective use of space.
Investing in Croatian coast can really be good investment but prices already went quite high. Take more and more time and effort to find some good investment chance. Krk and north part of coast is maybe bit more interesting as better connected and more developed in all senses.
Also paperwork in sense of building permits etc... use to be very complicated for foreign buyers, but good news is that is becoming more simplified with some new laws and regulatives as must correct it before going into European Union.
Good buys like in Michelles post are not so hard to find as many of these vilages and small cities have developing plans that almost all includes marines, hotels etc etc...It all really depends on price.
Anyway if can help anyhow, let me know...

Regards
Denis

[istracpsboss]

Originally Posted by Mike -NewOverseasInvestor

Oh yes, while in Montenegro, I spoke with several locals and they said outside of the major new developments, most ruins, older properties etc... were being put aside for the Russians who work with good old fashioned cash! I guess this puts me of dealing in this market as I simply can not compete with rich russians who have far too much loose cast to throw around! - Croatia though I felt a little safer... Thoughts????

Best Regards
Mike

Things are changing. The Russian economy has expanded on the back of high oil prices. Now that oil prices are dropping, their economy is having variations on the same problems happening elsewhere.
Today I heard of two property deals, one in Istria and one (2.2M) in Montenegro where two different investors pulled out after paying deposits, because their stocks on the Russian Stock Market had dropped so badly that they could no longer finance the deals. They accepted that they would lose their deposits. The vendors must have been delighted. 10% cash now giving them a bit of cashflow and the properties still to sell in the future!

Cheers

Peter

[istracpsboss]

Originally Posted by sqftmag

Mike, it's a funny thing but I'm in love with Croatia too! I am just about to invest over there. Every summer, I go and stay with Croatian friends near Pula in Istria. (The bit just opposite Venice that used to be Italy until 1947).

Whilst true, this is disengenuous. Italy occupied Istria, part of Rijeka and parts of Dalmatia as spoils of the victors after the first world war. They were occupied for less than 20 years between 1918 and 1945. They had never been part of modern Italy. Whilst they were part of the Roman Empire, so was most of the UK. Whilst they were part of the Venetian Empire so was a lot of Greece and Turkey. No-one ever suggests these are part of Italy so why the constant suggestion, particularly on American websites, that Istria was somehow stolen from them?

>I am a property journalist and have written about Croatia. (I also own the on->line property investor magazine Square Foot.) So I have done some good research.

>This July, I met up with a regeneration consultant working for the Croatian >government on re-developing part of the Istrian coastline. It will be transformed >from a quaint fisherman's village into a 5* marina with top-end villas and restaurants. Bizarrely, the transformation is to take place in the very town I've visited annually for the past 7 years.

Fazana. The development seems to be currently on hold while the archeological boys check out the Roman remains on the site. We have a lot of interesting history in Istria. Istrian olive oil was always highly regarded and the Romans in particular loved it. The other side of that coin is that we have Roman remains everywhere. I understand Kempinski are standing back from investing further at the moment until they can establish a clear time frame for being able to develop the site once the archeological examination is over.
We are keenly interested in this as we have property for sale in Fazana and Peroj which will benefit enormously from proximity to it. Even places like Vodnjan will be boosted by it.

>I have teamed up with this Croatian consultant to find me properties in the area >for investments with friends. I'll be hosting a recce in Spring 2008. I'm keeping >pretty quiet about this for the moment as I want to get in on the deals to be >had before the area goes crazy. If you're interested, I'd be happy to give you >more details.


How did it go Michele?

Cheers

Peter Ells at CroatiaPropertyServices