What is going to push the Spanish Market back up

[Vicens_Ash]

A good clean out of bent townhall folk would'nt go a miss!

[mambo]

The government needs to substantially lower taxes and costs of buying and selling property in Spian. Average costs of 11% including the 7% transfer are just too high for investors

[Randall]

I feel the market would pick up if buyers had faith in the Spanish legal system.

The corrupt Town Halls and mayors who have received backhanders from developers have ruined peoples faith in purchasing in Spain.

The Illegal builds, false escrutias ....Who could purchase a property with 100% faith.

Until this happens the market will never pick up.

[Goldberg Global]

Randall though good points, I think they are too emotional. People will buy in Spain

for Retirement.
to make money.
Get a good lawyer and they eradicate alot of the legal problems.

[Randall]

Hi

You can only vent your experiences.

There is a saying.....A fool learns from his own mistakes but a wiseman learns from others.

Unfortunately i was the fool.

[Goldberg Global]

Sorry to hear that Randall.

I believe there needs to be a new process so people understand what they are doing, so you can risk manage your situation.

[Randall]

I agree.

The trouble is people are led by advertisements. We were led by Parador.

The working person who has worked all their lives has no clue as to what is going on in Spain.

They want to spend their hard earned money on a nice retirement home and enjoy what time they have and then leave it to their children......Nothing wrong with that.

The trouble is while spending that money and waiting for all the red tape now involved, by the time it comes to fruition they have lost many years of retirement,let alone the years lost from ill health worrying about legal issues.

[Goldberg Global]

Sue the b**********s

If not possible. Ok, lets be reasonable. Lets be educated and informed. Easy to say, I have been twice taken to the cleaners in Spain, once by a big company, and second by a small company, one Spanish one from a country near to England. I have been to the court system, and the reality is to try not to go this route. I went because I want justice. And I was lucky, I had some good people to support my actions.

So yes we are all green to a certain extent. We can protect ourselves to a certain level, but we must also be aware people operate at different levels to ones ethics and expectations.

There is a different code of conduct when you leave the UK. Rules are out the window, ethics and professionalism are not really around to the level of the UK. Proceed with extreme caution and trust no one. What people say let them put it on paper. Take little steps.

I feel for you. Because I got done over by so called big companies, and many of my colleagues too, so I set up an organisation called SUE Group, to sue unfair employers, basically people who abuse employees, eg. expats who dont know the spanish law. We have to stand up against the bandits, and not allow them to continue.

In time the bad people will come out, you had a negative experience with one company, I think they are having problems now themselves, like all of Spain. If you want good legal advice (except SUE Group), you have to pay for it.

Why do you believe the adverts? The working person must come to Spain and look around on holiday, before jumping in, read books, go to forums, of course, to have a nice retirement home is important and desirable and to leave inheritence to children is nice as well.

Look into the rules and laws on this. It is very important. For non residents the inheritance laws. From the SUE Group I hear stories, mostly bad ones! so yes I am aware, but we must provide a platform so other people do not have the same mishaps, and the .......ers, can not abuse other people.

Good of you to air your thoughts, it airs my own. Good luck, if you need good advice PM I will help free, if I can, or direct you with integrity to a better way. thanks.

[JMBroad]

Originally Posted by Gerry Pridham

Two things will push the market up:

1 Demand from long term lets will exceed supply (not likely in our lifetime)
2 Euribor interest rate will fall (not likely in the short term

conclusion: We are in for a rough ride in Spain, with sales characterized by more motivated sellers than in previous years, and buyers no longer willing to buy at 25% to 30% below bank valuations.

I predict that prices could fall as low as 50% of valuations, or at least until real rentals achievable excluding utilities and community fees are about 6% of capital values. That puts a 2 bed apartment attracting a rent of 600 per month at a value of around 120,000. You will find that such properties are currently over 150,000 with valuations around 200,000. And that's if you are lucky enough to get somebody who doesn't negotiate on rents. I've seen 2 identical villas next door to each other - one with a tenant paying 650 per month exclusive of bills, the other paying 500 per month including bills. The latter is more realistic.

Very interesting insight and while I agree on many points, it very much depends where we are talking about. Murcia is very different to Marbella is very different to Estepona and Cadiz or Huelva, etc, etc

I'm not sure which area you were referring to Jerry, but I haven't seen any rental prices like that over in Marbella so possibly further up the coast? Then again I am lazy when it comes to finding a rental property, much more than I should be.

I have experience in Marbella, specifically Marbella East (Cabopino to Rio Real) as I worked there for many years doing valuations on properties. The main challenge for that area is getting proper, realistic valuations done.

For a start, companies need to focus on specialised areas, not try and make their valuers/listers cover Murcia to Cadiz. Fortunately I was able to limit myself to one area at a time and work that area before moving on and helping set up a team in another area.

The second thing which needs to be done is actually spend time on those valuations and give the owners a realistic, achievable figure which they can get for their home. The main challenge I had when doing valuations was the people from other agencies overinflating the value of the house to "buy" the listing from the owners. Houses whose real value was around 1 million were being taken on with other agents at 4 million. Those houses will come down a lot more than 50% before they sell.

On the other hand, one property was valued by all the other agencies at "no more than 600k" - I valued it at 900k and it was sold for 880k in under two months. Most people out there doing the valuations are using total guesswork and have done no research at all to back up their figures. I couldn't do it now because I've been out of the Spanish market for almost a year but at the time I had years of research to back up my figures and left the system in place to support the decisions.

The first valuation I was sent on I had just "stepped off the bus" and hadn't got a clue what I was doing (and yes, the owner of the agency knew that and still sent me out alone) - the owner was pushy and I panicked and gave in and accepted the property at the price the owner insisted was a "fair" price (it was actually closer to three times what the property was worth). I went back a week later after doing a brief study of the area to re-negotiate and was told that three of the most reputable agencies on the coast had "agreed with my valuation". That house is still for sale

So, at least with the resale market - there are still many properties selling - the higher end properties are still selling very well, it's the cheaper two bed two bath apartments which are the trouble selling. To stimulate the resale market at least, it's very dooable - just not with everyone "guesstimating" house values.

[rowlandsbb]

Nice to see a bit of common sense and it is this approach which tends to come to the front when a market goes static
As long as finance remains available, and the EU economies remain relatively stable, the demand for properties at realistic prices will remain
The Estate Agency business worldwide has always had the problem of inflated asking prices to get the property on the books........on the basis that you can not sell it if you are not offering it!!!
But it gets worse during boom times and then comes back down to earth when the market slows
On this forum a lot of people are searching for the ' next boom location' and are prepared to take the risks but there are a lot more people out there who are buying for life style reasons and for them buying in a stable economy with a growing infrastructure is a safer bet
Hence all surveys show that Spain remains high on everyone's list
Whilst I like the CDS, my preference today is Almeria between Aguilas and Mojacar or Murcia
Prices are much cheaper for the same product and it is quieter, at present at least!
2008 will turn out to be a very good year for anyone who buys, realistic prices for good re sales and good terms for new build